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Re: Official what Black (Red) Tea Are You Drinking Right Now?

by jayinhk » Apr 30th, '16, 06:16

ethan wrote:
jayinhk wrote:What's the difference between a black tea made from TGY leaves and a black TGY? Funnily enough I had the same tea as you yesterday, brewed with similar parameters and the same results!
Jay, A "black tea" is thick in body & boldly flavored. I had thought of all black tea that way regardless of the cultivar oxidized so much it became a black tea. This black tea made of TGY leaves is too unique for me to think of it as another black tea. I drink it & it is "black TGY". TGY characteristics are not buried in black tea characteristics.

There is a chance that however we prepare this tea, we will not get beyond very good tea: A very good black w/ TGY flavors or a very good TGY w/ sweet black tea character. We might need to embrace this tea this way & wonder what the lady did to make it better than we do.
I've had much better results using a lot more leaf and shorter infusions (gongfu style). Way more complexity. Have you had any other Chinese blacks? They tend to be much softer than the Indian kind IMO.

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Re: Official what Black (Red) Tea Are You Drinking Right Now?

by ethan » Apr 30th, '16, 20:30

Jay, I'm drinking the fifth infusion of a gongfu session for this black TGY w/ good results but not better than w/ Western style preparation. I think I don't catch changes like you do. I'm okay w/ a very good tea that seems like it could be fantastic, but I will experiment a bit more w/ some teaware changes.
W/ some oolongs I have combined infusions as we witnessed in Taiwan & this is interesting & tasty. Drinking some of each infusion by themselves & then mixed into other infusions alerts one to a kind of fullness of flavor that is hard to describe.

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Re: Official what Black (Red) Tea Are You Drinking Right Now?

by daidokorocha » Apr 30th, '16, 20:44

ethan wrote:Jay, I'm drinking the fifth infusion of a gongfu session for this black TGY w/ good results but not better than w/ Western style preparation. I think I don't catch changes like you do. I'm okay w/ a very good tea that seems like it could be fantastic, but I will experiment a bit more w/ some teaware changes.
W/ some oolongs I have combined infusions as we witnessed in Taiwan & this is interesting & tasty. Drinking some of each infusion by themselves & then mixed into other infusions alerts one to a kind of fullness of flavor that is hard to describe.
I was actually wondering if anybody else does this, because I tend to do it quite often. It isn't something I've ever really seen discussed, but I find it interesting for examining a tea and creating new flavor profiles from them.

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Re: Official what Black (Red) Tea Are You Drinking Right Now?

by jayinhk » May 1st, '16, 00:29

I used to fill a big mug with stacked infusions from a 185ml pot, but stopped stacking infusions until after we went to Taipei. It definitely makes for a fuller flavored cup without overbrewing issues from steeping for too long.

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Re: Official what Black (Red) Tea Are You Drinking Right Now?

by daidokorocha » May 7th, '16, 11:07

I was doing that with some first and second flush darjeelings the other day. I feel I can better balance the body, bitterness, and fruity flavors by doing stacked infusions. Sometimes the cup can be semi-boring if you just brew it in a big pot.

Yesterday, I pulled out the cake of yunnan purple black tea with snow chrysanthemum from Yunnan Sourcing. I would definitely buy this again. Very sweet, medicinal tasting, floral, woody. Mellow, no astringency, no bitterness. Goes the distance, hard to overbrew, and would make for a great casual drinker as well as it is incredibly easy on the stomach, brew, and quite cheap. Good for after meals.

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Re: Official what Black (Red) Tea Are You Drinking Right Now?

by kuánglóng » May 8th, '16, 13:26

2016 FF Singbulli SFTGFOP 1 Cl DJ4.
Intense greenish floral and vegetal notes, more stems than blossoms - iris, orchids, that direction. There's a wee bit of sweetness but not much else that calls my attention. The whole affair is fairly unisono and vertically layered over a deep base of a very 'cultivated' bitterness reminding of artichokes with a healthy dose of adstringency but again, nothing that stands or sticks out. Enjoyable but nothing I'd kill for. OTOH I'd immediately recognize this tea in a blind test and look forward to set the next one up in a couple weeks.

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Re: Official what Black (Red) Tea Are You Drinking Right Now?

by ethan » May 8th, '16, 15:32

kuanglong, That tea seems quite different than typical darjeeling & would disappoint one expecting usual flavors. Perhaps the tea needs to settle for a week or more inside a tea caddy that lets it breath a little. (Teas that I got in Taiwan in January have already changed a couple of times or more inside their individual ceramic caddies, mostly for the better.)

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Re: Official what Black (Red) Tea Are You Drinking Right Now?

by kuánglóng » May 8th, '16, 17:23

ethan wrote:kuanglong, That tea seems quite different than typical darjeeling & would disappoint one expecting usual flavors. Perhaps the tea needs to settle for a week or more inside a tea caddy that lets it breath a little. (Teas that I got in Taiwan in January have already changed a couple of times or more inside their individual ceramic caddies, mostly for the better.)
Thanks Ethan but IMO that tea is a fairly typical sample of a modern FF DJ, a trend that slowly started somewhere in the 70s towards more ephemeral, markedly flowery, hard withered greenish FF DJs, something specifically tailored for the European markets, primarily France and Germany - back in the hills we've discussed this topic ad nauseum. BTW, something very similar happened to TGY (the modern 'nuclear green' variety that's all over the place) but for different reasons. The adstringency I mentioned is mainly due to my standard sampling routine I forgot to mention, from what I've seen most customers over here use less leaf, lower temperature and shorter steeping times and head for a lighter cup.
Regarding storage and airing; I've posted some lines about my experiences with Himalayan teas here a while ago; from what I see this Singbulli has had enough exposure to O2 in the meantime and you can't treat Darjeelings with their relatively high surface/weight ratio and specific chemistry the same way as teas made from larger leave varietals, like e.g. most chinese and taiwanese Oolongs - deteroriation (mainly oxidisation) happens much faster - unfortunately :( .

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Re: Official what Black (Red) Tea Are You Drinking Right Now?

by ethan » May 8th, '16, 18:53

That's informative. I get a kick out of the term "nuclear green" for the TGY. Like radioactivity, green TGY flavors never totally die even when roasted to darkness.
What you wrote about the darjeeling leaves makes me wonder how the HOR tea I have survives so well in my caddies, resealable pouches, tins. A big difference between Jun Chiyabari's tea & other tea from the same area of Nepal is its durability, but the company does not say it does something radically different. (The HOR I have is not a first flush.)
Not only w/ tea but w/ many products, it seems trends dictate too much. E.g., I like full -fat buttermilk. It is almost impossible to find. Somehow it is all 1/2 % or 1 % milkfat. As if 100% of buttermilk drinkers demanded it. We did not.

Cheers

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Re: Official what Black (Red) Tea Are You Drinking Right Now?

by daidokorocha » May 8th, '16, 19:00

ethan wrote:That's informative. I get a kick out of the term "nuclear green" for the TGY. Like radioactivity, green TGY flavors never totally die even when roasted to darkness.
What you wrote about the darjeeling leaves makes me wonder how the HOR tea I have survives so well in my caddies, resealable pouches, tins. A big difference between Jun Chiyabari's tea & other tea from the same area of Nepal is its durability, but the company does not say it does something radically different. (The HOR I have is not a first flush.)
Not only w/ tea but w/ many products, it seems trends dictate too much. E.g., I like full -fat buttermilk. It is almost impossible to find. Somehow it is all 1/2 % or 1 % milkfat. As if 100% of buttermilk drinkers demanded it. We did not.

Cheers
Is this just not too true? One of my problems with this phenomenon is yogurt. My favorite yogurt is a full-fat yogurt from a certain brand and they sell their yogurt in numerous sizes, and yet the full-fat one they only sell in their smallest tubs rather than the larger tubs! Less of it is stocked as well, which means sometimes I am not able to get it. So I have to stock up. I feel this way about many other products.

To make it on topic, I will say that on the rare occasion I do drink black tea with milk (the rare occasion I even have milk in my house I suppose), I make it full fat milk. I actually bought some milk yesterday (an 8 oz. bottle so it doesn't go to waste), so I think I am going to go make some black tea with a smidgen of milk.

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Re: Official what Black (Red) Tea Are You Drinking Right Now?

by kuánglóng » May 9th, '16, 08:54

ethan wrote:That's informative. I get a kick out of the term "nuclear green" for the TGY. Like radioactivity, green TGY flavors never totally die even when roasted to darkness.
Green TGY seems to be somewhat unusual in that regard, I did some experiments in that direction a while ago and maybe post some findings later. One more thing I've noted is that I can still perceive almost the entire flavor spectrum of TGY when I smoke at the same time (no more than one ciggie a week), this doesn't work at all with Darjeelings or many other teas.
Something else I have no doubt about is the use of artificial flavorings in some TGY and Ben Shan (本山) that's often sold as TGY and once I'm at it a lot of other teas.
What you wrote about the darjeeling leaves makes me wonder how the HOR tea I have survives so well in my caddies, resealable pouches, tins. A big difference between Jun Chiyabari's tea & other tea from the same area of Nepal is its durability, but the company does not say it does something radically different. (The HOR I have is not a first flush.)
I can't say much about your particular leaves but notwithstanding the specific environmental factors at play the relative long term durability mainly depends on the individal chemistry and structure of the leaves as well as the residual moisture. I've had some Darjeelings die on me within a few days, mainly due to moisture they must have picked up somewhere before they reached me; something that's relatively easy to measure but apparently not too many folks in the business know or give a damn about.
Anyway, in case of your HOR any oxygen in your caddy or bag will accelerate the ripening/aging process but in what direction and how fast again mainly depends on above factors.
Not only w/ tea but w/ many products, it seems trends dictate too much. E.g., I like full -fat buttermilk. It is almost impossible to find. Somehow it is all 1/2 % or 1 % milkfat. As if 100% of buttermilk drinkers demanded it. We did not.

Cheers
I don't care too much about that sort of trends or over-processed foods either to put it mildly and I still produce a lot of stuff myself: soy milk, tofu, all sorts of bread, noodles, tsampa/gofio, pickles, masalas, jam, ... to me the results are more than worth it. I moved 4000km down south some time ago and look forward to producing my own goat cheese and maybe growing some tea among other things; can't wait.

Cheers

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Re: Official what Black (Red) Tea Are You Drinking Right Now?

by ethan » May 9th, '16, 12:55

kuanglong, The Himalayan Orange dry leaves have almost no aroma when I first get them. A month later they have developed a wonderful aroma which is not specific, rather a very pleasing & strong scent of tea in general. As soon as those same leaves are hit w/ boiling or near-to-boiling water, the emit totally different aroma that we recognize as specific to the tea of the high mountains of darjeeling & dhankuta region of Nepal. The aroma & taste of what gets drunk is so different than the dry leaves once they have "aged" a month or more. It still impresses me regularly after a couple of years of drinking tea from Nepal.

What you say about care of the leaves may explain why one year's white tea from Shangrilla are much more durable than the previous year's tea. Also why Jun Chiyabari is more durable also. Jun Chiyabari does not sell retail. It's tea comes in one-kilogram foil bags & the company does not bother w/ small wholesale orders--perhaps because they focus on taking care of tea & not wanting naive newbies messing up their tea. (I wanted to buy white tea from J.C. but could not.)

Cheers

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Re: Official what Black (Red) Tea Are You Drinking Right Now?

by daidokorocha » May 9th, '16, 19:37

I got my package in today from Happy Earth Tea today.

I had three cups of the below link, each brewed a tablespoon to 8 oz for 3 minutes at varying temperatures. I am not entirely sure how to describe this tea. It To me, it strikes me as a blend of something like Yezi Tea's Qing Pin in that it has a sort of chocolatey, cocoa and earthy, nutty flavor with white fruit but the fruit isn't so light and refreshing like biting into an apricot but rather leans toward a darker, warmer pitted fruit tone - perhaps more of a dry fruit warmth. I feel that it somewhat resembles darjeeling in some of the fruit flavor, falling somewhere in between first and second flush flavor. Yes, this is good and a long sweetness lingers that attacks not the palate or the throat or any such place, but below the tongue under the gums. It is a gentle tea on the stomach, somewhat brisk. Good alternative to an Assam if one cannot stomach that in the morning. More interesting than darjeeling. I do not drink darjeeling much despite enjoying the flavor. If I do, it is generally first flush as I prefer those. As mentioned, this feels to me somewhat between first and second while giving me other flavors as an overtone that perhaps makes me enjoy this more. It will be interesting to see how it compares to the HOR from Jun Chiyabari that Evan so graciously sent out to me today.

https://happyearthtea.com/collections/b ... al-organic

I did buy a darjeeling and the owner chipped in a free sample of another darjeeling which was very kind. Both are first flushes and it'll be interesting to see how they compare to my other first flush I have currently.

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Re: Official what Black (Red) Tea Are You Drinking Right Now?

by kuánglóng » May 10th, '16, 13:47

ethan wrote:kuanglong, The Himalayan Orange dry leaves have almost no aroma when I first get them. A month later they have developed a wonderful aroma which is not specific, rather a very pleasing & strong scent of tea in general. As soon as those same leaves are hit w/ boiling or near-to-boiling water, the emit totally different aroma that we recognize as specific to the tea of the high mountains of darjeeling & dhankuta region of Nepal. The aroma & taste of what gets drunk is so different than the dry leaves once they have "aged" a month or more. It still impresses me regularly after a couple of years of drinking tea from Nepal.
Sounds familiar :)
No need to mention I'm a big fan of Nepali teas too and have some in storage, 3 different Jun Chiyabari among them.
Anyway, it's just wonderful to see how far Nepali teas have come in the last 10-15 years, how they've evolved in relation to Darjeelings and the importance of fresh, open and creative approaches (vs. stagnant orthodoxy) in this game. Compare this to the TGY situation where apparently almost everyone is doing the exact same thing - following the herd wherever it may go vs. leaving it behind and following your own nose to explore new possibilities.
What you say about care of the leaves may explain why one year's white tea from Shangrilla are much more durable than the previous year's tea. Also why Jun Chiyabari is more durable also.
Back in the hills we ran a lot of experiments, changing one parameter at a time, tasting result after result and documenting it all with lots of photos and notes and the firing always appeared like some black art to me, maybe the hardest stage in the process to teach and to get right and it's often been the step when you could see those folks getting somewhat nervous, no matter how long they've been in the business.
Jun Chiyabari does not sell retail. It's tea comes in one-kilogram foil bags & the company does not bother w/ small wholesale orders--perhaps because they focus on taking care of tea & not wanting naive newbies messing up their tea. (I wanted to buy white tea from J.C. but could not.)
Cheers
Sounds like a good idea. I've done some consulting for the 'industry' and couldn't believe how little some of the folks in charge knew or cared about correct storage, packaging and other essential aspects. Looks like many of them are just in it for the $$$.
Looking back at last year (still on the road) more than one third of the tea I've ordered from "reputable" sellers went straight into the trash can - it gets tiring after a while to say the least.

Anyway, got some FF Puttabong waiting, always good for a nice surprise :D

Cheers
Last edited by kuánglóng on May 10th, '16, 19:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Official what Black (Red) Tea Are You Drinking Right Now?

by daidokorocha » May 10th, '16, 14:35

Please forward me the tea rather than throw it out please :mrgreen:

I do not love every tea I receive, but I find almost any tea I have ever had worth drinking. Tea is an everyday, all day drink for me, so things that I would not necessarily buy again or care to drink too often do find their use for certain. A lot of black teas end up falling in this category... two months ago or so I suddenly began drinking nothing but black teas for some reason. I guess I had that urge... although I will say it was probably because I did not have other teas around of good quality as all my tea was old having come back to it after a year and the black tea of course lasted. Additionally, I was lacking proper equipment to really brew anyhow and black teas are easiest in that respect. I do not crave black teas over other things too often, but I ended up with a lot of black teas that month when I began buying tea again. I even bought a Ceylonese tea... perhaps that will be the tea in the future I come back to after all my tea goes stale. I do not generally like ceylonese tea for whatever reason but I will not bin it as I will find some use for it certainly.

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