Dissolvable tea?


Completely off the Topic of Tea

Re: Dissolvable tea?

Postby spot52 » Feb 12th, '11, 14:38

AdamMY wrote:
spot52 wrote:
edkrueger wrote:+1. Matcha has a correct definition and that is not matcha.

And that is the beauty of being able to have your own opinion. What ever you want to call their product, it is pretty good on the go! :D



This is not a matter of opinion, I can throw Genmaicha and throw it in a food processor, it still does not make it matcha. At best it is "powdered Genmaicha " same with Houjicha and Sencha. Now I am not knocking its quality or its ease of use, but matcha has very specific guidelines as to what should actually be called matcha.

Make no mistake, your point was clear from the beginning. And my point was too. There are some sources that state that matcha can be made from Japanese green tea. And I was simply pointing out, that by their definition, the tea I referenced would qualify.
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Re: Dissolvable tea?

Postby iannon » Feb 12th, '11, 14:50

spot52 wrote:
AdamMY wrote:
spot52 wrote:
edkrueger wrote:+1. Matcha has a correct definition and that is not matcha.

And that is the beauty of being able to have your own opinion. What ever you want to call their product, it is pretty good on the go! :D



This is not a matter of opinion, I can throw Genmaicha and throw it in a food processor, it still does not make it matcha. At best it is "powdered Genmaicha " same with Houjicha and Sencha. Now I am not knocking its quality or its ease of use, but matcha has very specific guidelines as to what should actually be called matcha.

Make no mistake, your point was clear from the beginning. And my point was too. There are some sources that state that matcha can be made from Japanese green tea. And I was simply pointing out, that by their definition, the tea I referenced would qualify.


Not sure thats the case.. Only ground Tencha qualifies as Matcha..ground Sencha would be Konacha. Its ALL japanese green tea of SOME sort true
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Re: Dissolvable tea?

Postby alan logan » Feb 12th, '11, 16:58

I think Iannon is right, except maybe for one very tiny thing.

tencha is the name of leaves intended to make matcha by grinding. I do think they are covered before harvesting like leaves intended for gyokuro, and that selected cultivars are used (not any cultivar that you'd use for sencha I mean), but this should be confirmed. At the least they are attended to in a specific way.

so by definition matcha is not any tea that you would grind. If sencha leaves are powdered then the product is called powdered sencha, not matcha.
Matcha apparently refers to a whole choice of processing, not merely the part where you grind.

konacha is not ground.
it is a de-mono, like kukicha & mecha eg.
when the leaves (for sencha or gyokuro or kabuse) are sorted, among the tools involved are sifters of different sizes. finer sifter will sift very small pieces of leaves, and that is konacha.
so konacha is a result of minute sifting, sometimes the particles are tiny. Yet it is not dust. An even finer sifter will sort out tea dust, called doro-kona (apparently not intended for retail).

source for details:
http://sommelier-the-japonais.blogspot. ... a-cha.html
This is a post from a blog by a guy who passed the nihoncha instructor certification and lives & works in Japan. It is written i nfrench but w google translate you should be fine. If some point are poorly translated by google and you feel are unintelligible don't hesitate to PM me and I'll give a hand.
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Re: Dissolvable tea?

Postby AdamMY » Feb 12th, '11, 18:34

I think I realized a possible problem, and perhaps language is to be blamed. I do think I have recalled seeing the following quote even from reputable and trustworthy sources.

Matcha: A powdered Japanese tea


And that statement is true, but the converse so to speak is not. Any powdered Japanese tea is not matcha. This is the universal qualifier verses existential qualifier problem in mathematics, so to speak.

So the quote above is not to be read:
"Every powdered Japanese tea is matcha."

But rather:
"There exists a powdered Japanese tea which is called matcha."
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Re: Dissolvable tea?

Postby alan logan » Feb 12th, '11, 18:52

yessss
like in :
(A=>B) ≠> (B=>A)
:wink:

plus, another ambiguity is in the suggestion that (matcha) limits itself to (ground), not including other criteria in the (matcha) notion.
so such a formulation leads to matcha<=>ground.

yet natural language is not to be blamed, because it carries its own indicators for parsing and making decisions on meaning (although on an arborescence built with semantic possibilities, the mind is always free to play, which has benefits, but also sometimes inconveniences; non-natural languages tend to reduce or even eradicate the "possible" field). --sorry, I'm afraid I could not get further into discussing this, my english vocabulary in technical linguistics is not what it should be).

anyway I had a look to see if i could find some more, and it appears that tencha is :
same leaves as intended for gyokuro (which would mean also covered)
but with stems and ribs taken off.
only the "flesh" of the leaves (do you say that in english????) is used to make matcha.

oh, btw, it may be that I was a bit too fast is thinking that konacha only was for the de-mono:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matcha
"Note that only ground tencha qualifies as matcha, and other powdered green teas, such as powdered sencha, are known as konacha (粉茶, lit. "powder tea"."
is that right ?
I think that if it is right that konacha is also a term used for powdered sencha, it is then by extension (maybe implying that it is considered "below" matcha, or on the same level as a de-mono). Or maybe it's the other way round and the de-mono "konacha" was named after the powdered sencha.
I did not find anything that said powdered sencha was made from destemmed and deveined leaves, although it seems obvious to me that stems have been already sorted out at the stage when the leaves are ground.
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