Humble Teapologies ...


Completely off the Topic of Tea

Re: Humble Teapologies ...

Postby Chesslover » Dec 21st, '11, 19:05

Well you could be in worse position like in our country...you would have to wait for some 3 or 4 years more to be called to court to make a statement as a witness (and damaged party)...
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Re: Humble Teapologies ...

Postby Chesslover » Dec 21st, '11, 19:12

Don't you have a possibility to sue insurance company of the perpetrator for the damage you had (material and non-material)? Do you have to wait for the criminal procedure to end? Aren't you just a witness in criminal procedure and the main focus of this procedure being establishing guilt of perpetrator for commiting criminal act?
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Re: Humble Teapologies ...

Postby Chip » Dec 22nd, '11, 23:20

Chesslover wrote:Don't you have a possibility to sue insurance company of the perpetrator for the damage you had (material and non-material)? Do you have to wait for the criminal procedure to end? Aren't you just a witness in criminal procedure and the main focus of this procedure being establishing guilt of perpetrator for commiting criminal act?

In the USA, someone charged criminally is not obliged nor likely to discuss the matter civilly (or even with his/her insurance company) until the criminal side has fully run its course. Fortunately, defendents are entitled to a speedy trial here which can also speed up the the subsequent civil process.

The defendent has applied to a program called ARD (Accelerated Rehabilitative Disposition for first time nonfelony and non injury cases) where he must plead guilty and make restitution to the victim. In exchange, he will not face jail time as long as he fully adheres to the program in its entirety which is anywhere from 6-24 months.

Now aparently these guys have not read the legal definition of restitution as they seem to think this means to victimize the victim again with ridiculous low-balled restitution (which I cannot really state here and now). Unfortunately for them, I did read the legal definition which states that it is the "equivalent" to the property before the loss.

I have been told by those in the know, ARD is a political thing at times when jails are filled beyond capacity ... which is all the time.
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Re: Humble Teapologies ...

Postby Chesslover » Dec 23rd, '11, 03:58

Is this ADR programe completely dependant on your approval of restitution or does public prosecutor make a decision for you? Does this restitution include non-material damage? If yes - who decides what's fair compensation (in money) for non-material damage?

Sorry to ask so much, but I'm a lawyer (prosecutor) and am interested in your legal system...
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Re: Humble Teapologies ...

Postby Chip » Dec 29th, '11, 11:27

Chesslover wrote:Is this ADR programe completely dependant on your approval of restitution or does public prosecutor make a decision for you? Does this restitution include non-material damage? If yes - who decides what's fair compensation (in money) for non-material damage?

This is a good question. It is such an unusual situation, a prosecutor also directly representing a victim for restitution (and any other victim matter related to the criminal case, such as no contact stipulations, etc.) It is seemingly pretty unique to a program such as this ARD.

I do have the option to request the DA's office to not represent me in this phase in which case I have the option of hiring a lawyer or representing myself. I am not required to attend this upcoming hearing, though I have made it clear if this is not resolved ahead of time, I will attend and will request the opportunity to speak. They are obliged to consent. Truly this is not what I want, however.

I have made it very clear again what my demands are, reworded things a bit. The ADA has not responded.

If the prosecution and defense do not agree on the restitution (usually before the disposition hearing), then the presiding judge in the disposition hearing will have to decide. I don't think there is much of an appeal process available for either party. If the defense does not like it, all they can do is not comply and then face a whole new criminal case. If I do not, then civil remedies come into play.

It seems this guy would rather pay his lawyer a lot of money to create obstacles and nickel and dime this to death than simply pony up. I sense no remorse on his part, and he is paying more in the prolonged process.

All I am asking for is "equivalent" which is the legal definition of restitution. I personally do not see how restitution can be an item of compromise given the legal definition ... it is what it is as long as it is justified, period. I have provided 2 estimates/opinions of professionals in the field as well as industry articles and manufacturer's recommendations. I say, "Ante up or get out of the ARD program."
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Re: Humble Teapologies ...

Postby Chip » Dec 29th, '11, 11:33

In a related matter, I saw him drive past my house the other day (though I suspect he does frequently). We made eye contact as he had to slow for a stop sign right after our house, it was painfully drawn out.

His truck is so distict, a good thing. I saw it coming 100 yards (or meters) away.

But it is too much like that day in July. I am on foot in front of my house, he is behind the wheel of his weapon that day in July, when he also threatened me in the future, using his truck as a weapon. Really unsettling. :evil:
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Re: Humble Teapologies ...

Postby JBaymore » Dec 29th, '11, 21:49

I'll offer this opinion again... you need a lawyer yourself.

best,

...........john
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Re: Humble Teapologies ...

Postby Chip » Jan 10th, '12, 22:49

JBaymore wrote:I'll offer this opinion again... you need a lawyer yourself.

best,

...........john

... well we will see how this plays out soon enough ... hopefully. The final disposition hearing is scheduled for Thursday morning. At this time, the defendent is supposed to receive his sentence. And restitution is to be set. They have had months to sort all this out, yet I suspect it is not a done deal.

We shall see. But it is ... stressing me out ... :roll:
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Re: Humble Teapologies ...

Postby T-session » Jan 11th, '12, 07:18

... well we will see how this plays out soon enough ... hopefully. The final disposition hearing is scheduled for Thursday morning. At this time, the defendent is supposed to receive his sentence. And restitution is to be set. They have had months to sort all this out, yet I suspect it is not a done deal.

We shall see. But it is ... stressing me out ... :roll:


Hang in there Chip! We are all pulling for you! I hope the results are satisfactory for you.
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Re: Humble Teapologies ...

Postby Chip » Jan 12th, '12, 01:40

Thanks Bill. :mrgreen:

So, technically it is Thursday. Hoping for conclusion, time will tell. :?
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Re: Humble Teapologies ...

Postby T-session » Jan 12th, '12, 10:00

Chip wrote:Thanks Bill. :mrgreen:

So, technically it is Thursday. Hoping for conclusion, time will tell. :?


Today is the day, I'm sure the rest of the TC family and I will be thinking of you today. Post when you can later. Good Luck!
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Re: Humble Teapologies ...

Postby JBaymore » Jan 12th, '12, 11:13

Sending good thoughts your way.....

best,

..............john
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Re: Humble Teapologies ...

Postby Drax » Jan 13th, '12, 11:06

Normally, I would say "no news is good news"... but I'm worried here that no news is bad news...! Did you hear anything you can share?
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Re: Humble Teapologies ...

Postby Chip » Jan 13th, '12, 19:06

Thank you, TeaFriends.

Drax wrote:Normally, I would say "no news is good news"... but I'm worried here that no news is bad news...! Did you hear anything you can share?

How about basically good news, though not jump up and down great news. There was the long awaited hearing. There was restitution required as part of his acceptance into the program, though it was roughly 1/3 the value of my loss. This is better than nothing, had he not applied for this program, I would likely get nothing unless I filed a civil suit which I still can.

The ARD is a politically motivated program intended to make politicians and the DA's office look good. It is also by far the most economical for the local governement agencies and judicial system.

Basically everything I requested got whittled down. The no contact zone from 500 feet down to 100. The program length I requested was the max, 24 months ... down to 18 months. And of course restitution was cut by around 2/3.

As I sat there however, I was amazed at how attentative to everything the presiding judge was (no jury, the judge decides whether he is accepted into the program and ultimately the details of the ARD program if accepted).

He had obviously read every detail submitted and did not really pay too much attention to the assistant DA's diluted version. He was clearly not impressed with the compromise deal presented and was about to deny acceptance into the program which would have been huge.

After sitting and pondering as the courtroom sat in complete silence (although I think I heard the defendent's heart beating through his chest), he finally said yes, however increased the length of the program to 24 months ... going against the DA's recommendation.

Today, this feels like a bit of a redemption as at times I was made to feel like I was overreacting. And in hindsight, I wish I had spoken up somehow at the hearing to indicate my dissatisfaction with the greatly reduced restitution amount.

Also, if the defendent messes up in the program, he will land right back in the same courtroom in front of the same judge, and based upon the stern warnings issued by this judge, I guarantee you, he does not want to see this judge again.

I will be creating a blog that will explicitly cover details I simply could not post here. I will let you know ...
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Re: Humble Teapologies ...

Postby Drax » Jan 14th, '12, 14:33

Thanks for the update! I'm glad you've finally gotten some sort of resolution out of this whole affair.

All the best in spreading the word and trying to stop stuff like this from happening again.
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