Noob comments and order list


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Noob comments and order list

Postby ciphoto » Jul 16th, '12, 12:11

Following up a bit from this post… http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=17363

I did get a Bana Vintage sampler for farthers day, they even put some 94 Zhang Xaing and some Ying Hog no.9. I also got a 2011 Xi-Zi Hao "Zhang Jia Wan, YiWu" Small Brick, from houdeasianart.com

I did half the small samples so I could taste them twice, I tried to adjust my steep time to adjust for the small amount of tea. The ripes are way better than the mini touchas I had, and the raws are very good. I’m starting my second round later today. My favorites so far are the Original Aroma Wild, and the Golden Unicorn and the Wild Sevens Sons not necessarily in that order.

The small 2011 XI-ZI brick is really good too.

I’ve really enjoyed seeing how the teas change from steep to steep even the young sheng. I believe I’ll be switching from green tea to young sheng, or a reasonable ripe pu-erh for daily tea…

I’ve spent my tea budget for the month on samples from both YS and Puerh shop.

From the Puerh shop:
2006 Mengku Imperial Ripen Cake Sampler
2004 CNNP Old Tree Green Pu-erh Tea Cake Sampler
2003 Yiwu Acient Tree Pu-erh Tea Cake Sampler
2008 Dayi 7552 Pu-erh Tea
1998 CNNP 7542 Pu-erh Tea Cake 2 oz
2004 CNNP 7542 Green Pu-erh Tea Cake Sampler
2011 Dayi 7542 Pu-erh Tea Cake Sampler
I order different years of the same recipe to get a example of how some tea might age. I did read that one of these is probably mislabeled and is younger but what the heck its just a sample…

From YS:
2005 Gouyan LBZ
2009 YS Ban Zhang Chun Qing
2009 Yong Pin Hao Manzhaun Wild Arbor
2002 Hai Lang Hao Mengku Wild Arbor
2006 Menghai 7672
2006 Mengku Wild Arbor King
2010 YS Man Zhaun Autumn Yi Wu
2005 Meneghai Early spring
2010 Hai Lang Hao Yi Wu Wild Arbor

I kind of favored the wild old tree stuff in the samples so I ordered things I thought were similar. Of course that could just be marketing bs….

I now need to study up on the areas and start tying all that together, but there are only so many hours in a day. Also some of the descriptions are lacking or seem to be basically cut and paste, so a little knowledge of the areas should be helpful.

.
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Re: Noob comments and order list

Postby Lerxst2112 » Jul 16th, '12, 13:55

In regards to the 7542s, though they are different years, here are a couple links for some background information.

http://half-dipper.blogspot.com/2009/10 ... 2-901.html
http://puerh.blogspot.com/2011/12/2002- ... 2-208.html

The only Hai Lang Hao that I've experienced is the 2005 Jin Hai Lang, so sorry I couldn't be of more help there.

The '06 Mengku 'old tree' sounded familiar.... here's why: http://teapotnews.blogspot.com/2011/01/ ... -400g.html

additionally, I seem to remember comments about the 2004 CNNP 'old tree' as well here on TC. I could be mistaken, though.
Hope you find something worthwhile.

Peace, love, and tea -
Jess
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Re: Noob comments and order list

Postby Bryan_drinks_te... » Jul 16th, '12, 16:05

I think it's a safe bet to get the older 7542's as samplers, but since they are from CNNP they may be a little different than the Menghai dayi version. The newer (less than five year) 7542's are coming along strangely and don't seem to age like the older ones did. I'd definitely ask around!

Good Luck!

Bryan
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Re: Noob comments and order list

Postby ciphoto » Jul 16th, '12, 17:11

Thanks for the comments...
I know there will be some difference in the two factory blends, but hopefully it will still be a good example of aging since each is 6 years apart. I also want to buy different years same area etc... I'll be buying to drink and some to let age.

But since I'm already just about 50, it won't have more than 20/30 years...
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Re: Noob comments and order list

Postby zzenster » Jul 17th, '12, 22:19

If I may give you a suggestion, don't buy everything all at once.
You are not late in the game. Just take your time and research, enjoy sample and buy ones that you really want. Or you will end up with 50 cakes that you may not want years from now.
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Re: Noob comments and order list

Postby Charlotte_J » Jul 17th, '12, 22:32

bryan_drinks_tea wrote:I think it's a safe bet to get the older 7542's as samplers, but since they are from CNNP they may be a little different than the Menghai dayi version. The newer (less than five year) 7542's are coming along strangely and don't seem to age like the older ones did. I'd definitely ask around!

Good Luck!

Bryan


I think Bryan is right, and if I am not mistaken, it is difficult to know exactly what factory was in charge of the production, is that right? Quality can vary a lot from cake to cake!!
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Re: Noob comments and order list

Postby wyardley » Jul 18th, '12, 02:59

Well the '2' in 7542 is the factory code for Menghai Factory. So while other companies and factories have produced cakes which they say are based on the 7542 recipes, I think actual 7542 will always be from Menghai Tea Factory / Dayi.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think 'CNNP' / 'zhongcha' (pre-privatization) just refers to all the state-owned factories, including Menghai. CNNP actually included state tea businesses produced / packaged in other areas as well (Sea Dyke, Golden Sail, etc.), as well as other agricultural products.
Last edited by wyardley on Jul 18th, '12, 03:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Noob comments and order list

Postby MarshalN » Jul 18th, '12, 03:01

7542 has to be from Menghai factory.
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Re: Noob comments and order list

Postby ciphoto » Jul 18th, '12, 08:32

I beleive/have read CNNP is a factory, I believe somthing like Chinese national native produce and animal or something.

I have read that the four digit does suggest the factory. And wondered about the that the CNNP factory is not listed in the article on Wikipedia, and 2 would be the Dayi/Menghai factory. So I assumed that the orginal recipe came form the Menghai, and was produce by the CNNP... but I'm a noob and am just trying to learn a little...
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Re: Noob comments and order list

Postby JakubT » Jul 18th, '12, 15:51

ciphoto: I admit that it is somewhat of a personal thing, but after reading the Puershop owner's performance at http://teacloset.blogspot.cz/2012/06/pl ... 6503302813
I doubt I would like to buy anything from puershop.

You might want to have a look at thechineseteashop (cheap, yet reasonable aged tea, some nice 2003-5 teas for good money), Chawangshop (generally nice teas for good money) or Essence of Tea (given the western supply, a good offering of aged tea). Or you may simply stick with Yunnan sourcing, there is a lot of good tea to be had.
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Re: Noob comments and order list

Postby Tofsla » Jul 18th, '12, 17:51

JakubT wrote:ciphoto: I admit that it is somewhat of a personal thing, but after reading the Puershop owner's performance at http://teacloset.blogspot.cz/2012/06/pl ... 6503302813
I doubt I would like to buy anything from puershop.


JakubT: I think, this is not fair. Jim sells more than 500 cakes, and there is some tension, a particularly heated discussion about one of them.

Jim was correct enough to provide the details, including the link above, right on the item's page. Puershop is long enough in the business, and is known to sell and produce many good cakes. 2009 MGH version of 7542 got a very good review from Hobbes. Their 2011 Mangfei is reported by many, as the best tea from the region that outperforms its sisters from YS and other producers. Their prices for Manlou factory production are often better than those on taobao (and I have checked it many times, for quite a few cakes).

I think, Jim has the right to make the statement he makes. Many people on this forum prefer wetter stored teas, like those sold by EoT - and this one might be just too dry stored (which is also not an ideal condition, and it slows down any transformations). Besides, the whole thing about aged teas is very subjective. For example, the butterfly tou sold by lifeinteacup is sold as super-dry stored, yet, someone reported on steepster that it has mold and smells of cellar. I have tried the tuo and I know that the guy either lies or is delusional, and that gigko's description is 100% correct, but someone like you could just give a link to steepster and say I would never buy from lifeintecup. On the other hand, I have tried the famous Dingxing from Titanic vendor, and the even more famous and much more expensive Heng Li Chang from EoT, and I found both equally disgusting, smelling cellar and rotten rugs. But it is just my taste, and I don't go around telling people you should not buy from EoT - I would make myself a fool doing so.
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Re: Noob comments and order list

Postby Charlotte_J » Jul 18th, '12, 21:50

Tofsla wrote:
JakubT wrote:ciphoto: I admit that it is somewhat of a personal thing, but after reading the Puershop owner's performance at http://teacloset.blogspot.cz/2012/06/pl ... 6503302813
I doubt I would like to buy anything from puershop.


JakubT: I think, this is not fair. Jim sells more than 500 cakes, and there is some tension, a particularly heated discussion about one of them.

Jim was correct enough to provide the details, including the link above, right on the item's page. Puershop is long enough in the business, and is known to sell and produce many good cakes. 2009 MGH version of 7542 got a very good review from Hobbes. Their 2011 Mangfei is reported by many, as the best tea from the region that outperforms its sisters from YS and other producers. Their prices for Manlou factory production are often better than those on taobao (and I have checked it many times, for quite a few cakes).

I think, Jim has the right to make the statement he makes. Many people on this forum prefer wetter stored teas, like those sold by EoT - and this one might be just too dry stored (which is also not an ideal condition, and it slows down any transformations). Besides, the whole thing about aged teas is very subjective. For example, the butterfly tou sold by lifeinteacup is sold as super-dry stored, yet, someone reported on steepster that it has mold and smells of cellar. I have tried the tuo and I know that the guy either lies or is delusional, and that gigko's description is 100% correct, but someone like you could just give a link to steepster and say I would never buy from lifeintecup. On the other hand, I have tried the famous Dingxing from Titanic vendor, and the even more famous and much more expensive Heng Li Chang from EoT, and I found both equally disgusting, smelling cellar and rotten rugs. But it is just my taste, and I don't go around telling people you should not buy from EoT - I would make myself a fool doing so.


Spot on!!

Anybody who knows anything about puer ought to just accept the risk that nothing is always as it seems. If somebody does their best to provide a good product, and usually hits the mark, I think it is fine.Even some of the best companies in the world occasionally have a dud. Toyota has to recall some cars or a major food producer has something tainted, or mislabeled. To get all upset about 1 cake at a store that has done pretty reputable business is silly, i think! That being said, I haven't had the tea in question, or ordered from them. But, if it were me, I would want the benefit of the doubt!!
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Re: Noob comments and order list

Postby JakubT » Jul 19th, '12, 03:13

Tofsla & Charlotte:
a) I have not had any truly wet stored tea from EoT. If you did not enjoy the Bulang Heng Li Chang (here I have to say that I enjoyed it, but I do not think it is that good as some say), then aging tea may not be your thing. Even the famous Qing Bing, the famous dry stored cake, is way more like the Heng Li Chang rather than "dry stored" (i.e., Sahara stored) teas from 90s.

Also, the discussion on teacloset, I believe, suggested, that the shop owner does not have a clue about aged tea. Even super-dry stored cakes are much darker when 15 years old. That is - the tea is not dry stored, the tea is a fake.

b) Yes, there was for some time, a text concerning the discussion on teacloset. But it is not there anymore! It seems it was used only to feed the angry customers for a while. And furthermore, the update was quite boisterous and self-ego promoting again.

c) When walking the website of puershop, I often slip on puddles of ego - that is not good. There are well known sale-promoting inconsistencies (e.g., "we are finally getting somewhere" in the description of new American hao; yet the descriptions of older AH's also look like the best way to achieve multiple orgasms). Along with the text from b) and some funny bits of discussion at teacloset ("The fact is that the wrapper of our tea cake is much more authentic than the one at Taobao. Don’t you agree?" - the fact is that bollocks imo), I got the impression that the shop owner is just another "big american", who knows precious nothing, yet he is able to sell it at 300%.
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Re: Noob comments and order list

Postby Tofsla » Jul 19th, '12, 04:22

JakubT wrote: aging tea may not be your thing.


JakubT, please, do not try to help me to decide, what is my thing, and what is not.

JakubT wrote:the shop owner does not have a clue about aged tea. Even super-dry stored cakes are much darker when 15 years old.


All the evidence against this tea is just based on tecloset's and your experience and subjective impressions. I have read her blog, and I am reading yours for long enough to doubt that both of you have enough expertise in this matter.

JakubT wrote:Yes, there was for some time, a text concerning the discussion on teacloset. But it is not there anymore! It seems it was used only to feed the angry customers for a while. And furthermore, the update was quite boisterous and self-ego promoting again.


I did not find it boisterous. And Jim did not have to put it on the page and hold there for few weeks. I think, it was the right thing, and it is also ok that he has removed it.

JakubT wrote:When walking the website of puershop, I often slip on puddles of ego - that is not good.


I believe, you have just picked this "ego" thing from another recent discussion on this forum about another vendor. It made little sense there, and makes absolutely no sense here. What, do you want him to be humble and practice some self-denial? How about your ego? Don't you have it? Is yours good, as opposed to Jim's?

JakubT wrote:There are well known sale-promoting inconsistencies (e.g., "we are finally getting somewhere" in the description of new American hao; yet the descriptions of older AH's also look like the best way to achieve multiple orgasms).


I have never seen puerhshop site promising any orgasms. One may like or dislike Jim's style, but the factual side of his descriptions is usually rather accurate. I personally find descriptions on puerhshop no worse (and no better) than those on YS. As for the style, at least, it is original: Jim consistently stays himself and does not try to imitate Scott on his site, or Hobbes in his blog.

JakubT wrote:("The fact is that the wrapper of our tea cake is much more authentic than the one at Taobao. Don’t you agree?" - the fact is that bollocks imo), I got the impression that the shop owner is just another "big american", who knows precious nothing, yet he is able to sell it at 300%.


I myself have many times been in situations, when I knew I was right, but could not defend myself, just because I am not good with words, I think slow and easily get emotional. I am not a puershop's fun, or a long-time customer, even. But this holy war against puerhshop makes me sick.

I think, more western-oriented online tea shops run by passionate tea lovers is better. And there are not enough, yet. I am sure that puerhshop would not survive for 10 years without having many returning customers, and some of them are surely reading this blog. It is a pity that nobody came to oppose those trying to just kill a decent business. There was another post in teacloset's blog about a vendor that tries to push inferior stuff at inflated prices using really doubtful technics. Compare that shop to puershop, and I think it is clear, which one should go, and which one should better stay.
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Re: Noob comments and order list

Postby JakubT » Jul 19th, '12, 05:58

Tofsla wrote:
JakubT wrote: aging tea may not be your thing.


JakubT, please, do not try to help me to decide, what is my thing, and what is not.

OK. The point was - if you think that EoT's aged tea section is wetter stored, then you probably have not tried a wet stored tea. You might try that and then try the EoT offerings again. Btw., have you tried, e.g., the Qing Bing or dry stored Xiaguan 8653 from there? Or the bamboo-wrapped tuocha? These are all fairly dry stored.


JakubT wrote:the shop owner does not have a clue about aged tea. Even super-dry stored cakes are much darker when 15 years old.


All the evidence against this tea is just based on tecloset's and your experience and subjective impressions. I have read her blog, and I am reading yours for long enough to doubt that both of you have enough expertise in this matter.

Very well, that is your opinion. Pray tell, how many pre 2000 teas have you tried and from which shops?

The photos are sort of objective I think. Beside the color, the leaves seem quite large for a 7542.

One thing is, that I had some reasonably dry stored teas from 80-90s and probably about 3 or 4 were sahara stored (almost) - all were definitely darker. An important marker - even though a tea may be dry stored and greenish, its tips are going to get darker - the tips here are all very green/white.
Another thing is that I have tried few hundreds of 2006-2010 teas and their average was something like the photo of the tea. Therefore - even if my experience with aged tea is not vast, my experience with younger teas should be sufficient here.


JakubT wrote:Yes, there was for some time, a text concerning the discussion on teacloset. But it is not there anymore! It seems it was used only to feed the angry customers for a while. And furthermore, the update was quite boisterous and self-ego promoting again.


I did not find it boisterous. And Jim did not have to put it on the page and hold there for few weeks. I think, it was the right thing, and it is also ok that he has removed it.

Ok. That is probably a matter of opinion.

JakubT wrote:When walking the website of puershop, I often slip on puddles of ego - that is not good.


I believe, you have just picked this "ego" thing from another recent discussion on this forum about another vendor. It made little sense there, and makes absolutely no sense here. What, do you want him to be humble and practice some self-denial? How about your ego? Don't you have it? Is yours good, as opposed to Jim's?

Your belief is wrong, I did not pick this ego thing anywhere outside my mind.

Yes, I'd very much prefer if he was more humble. Self-denial is his personal thing, I do not care about that.

I'm happy with my ego. I do not think it is that bad really.


JakubT wrote:There are well known sale-promoting inconsistencies (e.g., "we are finally getting somewhere" in the description of new American hao; yet the descriptions of older AH's also look like the best way to achieve multiple orgasms).


I have never seen puerhshop site promising any orgasms. One may like or dislike Jim's style, but the factual side of his descriptions is usually rather accurate. I personally find descriptions on puerhshop no worse (and no better) than those on YS. As for the style, at least, it is original: Jim consistently stays himself and does not try to imitate Scott on his site, or Hobbes in his blog.

JakubT wrote:("The fact is that the wrapper of our tea cake is much more authentic than the one at Taobao. Don’t you agree?" - the fact is that bollocks imo), I got the impression that the shop owner is just another "big american", who knows precious nothing, yet he is able to sell it at 300%.


I myself have many times been in situations, when I knew I was right, but could not defend myself, just because I am not good with words, I think slow and easily get emotional. I am not a puershop's fun, or a long-time customer, even. But this holy war against puerhshop makes me sick.

This is no holy war. This is just that I think they are selling a fake and standing by its origins irrationally. And I do not like their self-presentation. That is just my opinion - they are obviously in the world of tea for long enough to prove that many people do not share the opinion with me.

I think, more western-oriented online tea shops run by passionate tea lovers is better. And there are not enough, yet. I am sure that puerhshop would not survive for 10 years without having many returning customers, and some of them are surely reading this blog. It is a pity that nobody came to oppose those trying to just kill a decent business. There was another post in teacloset's blog about a vendor that tries to push inferior stuff at inflated prices using really doubtful technics. Compare that shop to puershop, and I think it is clear, which one should go, and which one should better stay.

Yes, please, go to McDonalds because it is possibly better than BurgerKing. I myself will eat somewhere else.
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