TeaChat

futurebird wrote:I'm having a hard time making the connection between antique furniture shop and menthol/Eucalyptus oil.

I fascinated by your earlier comment that it can come from the proximity of trees.

Minty smell is actually known in pu erh as 荷香 (he xiang).

Camphor is 樟香 (zhang xiang). In that article it mainly says the smell is woody, which is similar to that of well kept dry antique wood furniture.

Another word you often see used is 陈香 (chen xiang), which means aged smell.

Actually shu can developed into a lot of different flavors.

枣香 - Jujube
梅香 - Plum
桂圆香 - Longan
参香 - Herbal
樟香 - Camphor
荷香 - Mint/Peppermint (some refer it as lotus also)
陈香 - Aged (To my understanding like semi-wet stored)
糯香 - Glutinous Rice
米香 - Rice
竹香 - Bamboo

I think there's a few more which I can't recall.

edit: added bamboo and lotus

edit:
蜜香 - Honey
蔘香 - Ginseng (similar to herbal)
栗香 - Roasted chestnut (similar to jujube)
古香 - same as aged
果香 - Fruity
花香 - Flora
原木香 - Similar to camphor

I am really enjoying this thread. Thank you to all the Chinese speakers who have contributed their knowledge. It is very interesting to see the terms used. Now if only we could get some of the items being compared like plum, jujube and longan. Maybe a trip to the local Chinese market might help!

BioHorn wrote:I am really enjoying this thread. Thank you to all the Chinese speakers who have contributed their knowledge. It is very interesting to see the terms used. Now if only we could get some of the items being compared like plum, jujube and longan. Maybe a trip to the local Chinese market might help!

plum just look for xiaguan xiao fa tuo (green box shu) 2013 or before 2009. jujube just look for those cheap "2000" or "90s" bricks (edit: 甲-jia will be a safer bet). Longan I'm looking as well

Biohorn: I think that dried longan is to be found in Xiaguan happy tuo.

With plums, it's difficult as there are several sorts of plums. There are dried plums, plum powidl, normal plums (though I think I have found these only in yancha) and fresh, less-than-ripe plums in long-term aftertaste of, e.g., aged 7542s.

JakubT wrote:Biohorn: I think that dried longan is to be found in Xiaguan happy tuo.

With plums, it's difficult as there are several sorts of plums. There are dried plums, plum powidl, normal plums (though I think I have found these only in yancha) and fresh, less-than-ripe plums in long-term aftertaste of, e.g., aged 7542s.

Thank you, Jakub for the info. Hopefully one of these days I can have dried plums.
BTW, Aged 7542 is one of my favorites!
Lordsbm:
I will keep my eyes out!

gingkoseto wrote:

Tead Off wrote:

theredbaron wrote:

TwoDog2 wrote:

Tead Off wrote:

gingkoseto wrote: And for me, dry storage aroma only

Is this something that most people agree with in this thread?

"Dry storage" is only ideal for me if it is on the humid side of dry.

I am rarely very enthralled with tea stored in very dry conditions.

I definitely with you there. Dry as with Kunming storage, etc, is not what i am looking for.
Maybe it's just what i am used to and like best - my own home stored teas and teas that have been naturally stored in similar climates.

My teas stored here in BKK have been in constant 26-35℃ temp with no humidity control at all. None have any wet storage aroma or taste. Can we really call it 'dry storage'? I don't think so

That's my definition of purely dry storage. Even in Guangdong, many people practice this definition of purely dry storage, with seasonal dehumidifier.
However, I don't know why some people think of Kunming as a dry place. I've never heard any non-tea people complaining Kunming as dry. To me, Kunming is one of the places "most suitable for human living", and I don't think tea storage conditions largely conflict with human living conditions.

So basically in my book you guys are all dry storage guys

1+ ! Kunming have a lot of kind warehouses. I think with humidity (relative) 74% not need to be scared of this city storage in general. I agree with word of Mr.Song in The Art of Tea No.13 (page 70-75)

BioHorn wrote:

JakubT wrote:Biohorn: I think that dried longan is to be found in Xiaguan happy tuo.

With plums, it's difficult as there are several sorts of plums. There are dried plums, plum powidl, normal plums (though I think I have found these only in yancha) and fresh, less-than-ripe plums in long-term aftertaste of, e.g., aged 7542s.

Thank you, Jakub for the info. Hopefully one of these days I can have dried plums.
BTW, Aged 7542 is one of my favorites!

By the way, nestle cafe issued a new product of plum-flavored puerh in China and it became a popular restaurant tea. I haven't got a chance to taste it yet, but a friend of mine said it's very good for your appetite and digestion, and definitely better than bad puerh and regular teas from lipton, nestle, etc.

JakubT wrote:Biohorn: I think that dried longan is to be found in Xiaguan happy tuo.

Isn't XG happy tuo a sheng? I recall longan taste refers to shu. In sheng I recall they use 蜜枣香 or 蜜香.

BTW those flavors translation I did is based shu. Sheng has other set.

lordsbm wrote:

JakubT wrote:Biohorn: I think that dried longan is to be found in Xiaguan happy tuo.

Isn't XG happy tuo a sheng? I recall longan taste refers to shu. In sheng I recall they use 蜜枣香 or 蜜香.

BTW those flavors translation I did is based shu. Sheng has other set.

I think that for most of us these descriptions of taste profiles will be very interesting to know that they exist, but quite useless when we try to describe taste of Pu Erh to each other, unless a Chinese Pu Erh expert has sat with us (on many sessions), brewed teas, each displaying these specific characteristics, so we can actually know what the different characteristics actually mean.

While i find it fascinating how the taste of many of those teas are classified, i would not be able to apply most of these taste profiles, as i have never learned about Pu Erh that methodically. How many people in this discussion have had the opportunity to learn Pu Erh appreciation in a methodical way?

I have had the opportunity to do that to some extend with Yancha (where also each different tea has to display for that particular tea clearly defined taste profiles). One of the main things that these lessons taught me is how extremely difficult this is, and that it takes almost a lifetime of intense and disciplined study, and in addition to that having regular access to top quality teas. Each time i have a lesson (nowadays far to seldom), i learn how little i actually know.

Actually a lot of the flavors are used as marketing gimmicks

I think the basic foundation to pu erh taste appreciation is:
甜度
苦度
浓度
涩度
回甘
生津
干度
顺滑度

The additional flavors just fall under 香气.

Well at least that's what my db is based on

lordsbm wrote:Actually a lot of the flavors are used as marketing gimmicks

Quite true

...which is one more factors that confuses the already extremely confused issue.

Nevertheless, some people do methodically study teas, dedicating decades of the lives on that quest, and that includes studying taste profiles as well. Unfortunately marketing means often that the knowledge of those people is used to sell inferior teas as something they aren't. Be that on purpose, or out of lack of knowledge - it does muddle things massively.
What some people, for example, describe as woody taste with earthen smell transporting you into a different sphere, i have often found to be plain rotten and moldy sending me straight to the toilet...

theredbaron wrote:Quite true

...which is one more factors that confuses the already extremely confused issue.

Nevertheless, some people do methodically study teas, dedicating decades of the lives on that quest, and that includes studying taste profiles as well. Unfortunately marketing means often that the knowledge of those people is used to sell inferior teas as something they aren't. Be that on purpose, or out of lack of knowledge - it does muddle things massively.
What some people, for example, describe as woody taste with earthen smell transporting you into a different sphere, i have often found to be plain rotten and moldy sending me straight to the toilet...

IIRC, pu erh was treated as a medical herb in the past. So there is extensive study of it in TCM. Other than that, it was just an inferior tea for commoners

So if the sellers don't "educate" and market them as premium products, not much buying potential I guess

Edit: For me it's fun to gain those extra knowledge, well that's till I found something else more interesting

lordsbm wrote: IIRC, pu erh was treated as a medical herb in the past. So there is extensive study of it in TCM. Other than that, it was just an inferior tea for commoners

Home storage of Pu Erh is quite a new thing, as far as i know. Now the first home stored Pu Er are coming into age, and i believe there is a whole lot more to learn still from then on.

My oldest home stored Pu Erh's have now crossed the 13 and 14 year age line - a few cakes i have been holding back, maybe nibble on them once in two years to see how they progress. But just the smells alone are astonishing...

Makes me profoundly jealous to read about people who live somewhere warm and humid! Unless I go the pumidor route, nice puerh will never be something I can drink daily -- too expensive to drink good, aged stuff every day, and too cold & dry to buy young puerh and wait 20 years.
(I am experimenting with cardboard boxes, tub of water inside, clingfilmed up, no mould yet (six months) -- definitely worth the risk, even if there's only a 20% chance the stuff will be drinkable in the future.)
Might make me jealous but still enjoy reading about people's experiences....