My burning question regards the anti- oxidantant power of sheng vs shu puerh. I am close to 65 yrs so aging sheng puerh makes little sense. But I'm very interested in a beverage that will maintain my health. I've bought a variety of cakes but wonder if shu or sheng would be better for me. I've read that shu is not regarded as legitimate pu by some purists but I really don't know.
Here's the crux of the biscuit...
I have 30 years of experience of preparing Chinese tonic herbs. All these years the common thread is that the older the herb is, the less potent.
So if puerh's flavor improves with age it must be at the expense of it's power.
I welcome feedback on this.
Re: Anti-oxidant power of raw vs ripe puerh
Anti-oxidation has many stories, recent studies suggest it might not be the reason why we should drink tea.
But just to answer your question, raw Pu of course contains more anti-oxidation effects than ripe Pu..since ripe Puerh undergoes high heat and procedures,
from little what I know, kings of antioxidant should be white tea and quality raw Puerh. It's about tea leaves, both have bigger tea leaves than their green tea cousins hence contain more vitamins and stuff. Second is process, both use lower or none of heat that might kill less nutrients.
On a personal view, for a person as old as over-60s, with a body getting colder and less immunity, I'd think quality raw Puerh like Gushu types might help for Yang Sheng, since white tea is known to have a 'cold nature. But I dunno much about this field
But just to answer your question, raw Pu of course contains more anti-oxidation effects than ripe Pu..since ripe Puerh undergoes high heat and procedures,
from little what I know, kings of antioxidant should be white tea and quality raw Puerh. It's about tea leaves, both have bigger tea leaves than their green tea cousins hence contain more vitamins and stuff. Second is process, both use lower or none of heat that might kill less nutrients.
That's what I heard, too. From what I know, after a decade, Sheng Puerh starts to lose its nutrients. But those plantation Puerh less than a decade will sicken your stomach before talking about health effect, so try the old tree leaves (Gushu) at best.All these years the common thread is that the older the herb is, the less potent.
On a personal view, for a person as old as over-60s, with a body getting colder and less immunity, I'd think quality raw Puerh like Gushu types might help for Yang Sheng, since white tea is known to have a 'cold nature. But I dunno much about this field
Re: Anti-oxidant power of raw vs ripe puerh
I have heard that aged tea, both puerh and oolongs, have beneficial properties in TCM. Also I've heard of other traditional Chinese medicines being aged, such as snake wine. This is second hand though, I haven't personally studied TCM more than casual readingsallthebest4u wrote: Here's the crux of the biscuit...
I have 30 years of experience of preparing Chinese tonic herbs. All these years the common thread is that the older the herb is, the less potent.
So if puerh's flavor improves with age it must be at the expense of it's power.
I welcome feedback on this.
Re: Anti-oxidant power of raw vs ripe puerh
As you already know, most of what we read about anti-oxidants, tea, herbs, and 'the healing process' is not much more than speculation. While it may be entertaining to think that tea is going to help you somehow live longer, be healthier, happier, etc., it is your mind, or more specifically, your brain, that will have a greater effect on your well-being than anything else. If you can somehow learn to stop 'thinking' too much, the natural powers of the body can take care of much that happens to it in life, with the exception of death, of course.allthebest4u wrote:My burning question regards the anti- oxidantant power of sheng vs shu puerh. I am close to 65 yrs so aging sheng puerh makes little sense. But I'm very interested in a beverage that will maintain my health. I've bought a variety of cakes but wonder if shu or sheng would be better for me. I've read that shu is not regarded as legitimate pu by some purists but I really don't know.
Here's the crux of the biscuit...
I have 30 years of experience of preparing Chinese tonic herbs. All these years the common thread is that the older the herb is, the less potent.
So if puerh's flavor improves with age it must be at the expense of it's power.
I welcome feedback on this.
Re: Anti-oxidant power of raw vs ripe puerh
not sure about living longer or being healthier, but it sure makes me happierTead Off wrote:As you already know, most of what we read about anti-oxidants, tea, herbs, and 'the healing process' is not much more than speculation. While it may be entertaining to think that tea is going to help you somehow live longer, be healthier, happier, etc., it is your mind, or more specifically, your brain, that will have a greater effect on your well-being than anything else. If you can somehow learn to stop 'thinking' too much, the natural powers of the body can take care of much that happens to it in life, with the exception of death, of course.allthebest4u wrote:My burning question regards the anti- oxidantant power of sheng vs shu puerh. I am close to 65 yrs so aging sheng puerh makes little sense. But I'm very interested in a beverage that will maintain my health. I've bought a variety of cakes but wonder if shu or sheng would be better for me. I've read that shu is not regarded as legitimate pu by some purists but I really don't know.
Here's the crux of the biscuit...
I have 30 years of experience of preparing Chinese tonic herbs. All these years the common thread is that the older the herb is, the less potent.
So if puerh's flavor improves with age it must be at the expense of it's power.
I welcome feedback on this.
Re: Anti-oxidant power of raw vs ripe puerh
that's your brain, speaking. Happiness is a state of mind. You don't need tea to be happy.
Re: Anti-oxidant power of raw vs ripe puerh
Puer, both raw and ripe, makes my brain work better and makes social encounters much more enjoyable. It gives me more creativity, too, so I tackle more interesting things. The cumulative effect of having several days in a row of feeling so good makes me happy. What is need? I suppose there are other ways to attain the things I mentioned that would require a great deal of time and immense effort but I have puer so I drink it.
Re: Anti-oxidant power of raw vs ripe puerh
Responding to the last three posts, I was just talking about something like this with a friend. We were discussing Wellness and how it is generally neglected (at least, it very much is in America). Take our approach to tea: it's just flavored water. Another flavored beverage. This point-of-view leaves out the stimulation and appreciation from our senses, aka. our Wellness and relationship to these fermented bush leaves. Like stopping to smell a flower, know its season, understand the conditions it grows and thrives under, appreciate its color and transience. Who does that anymore?
If tea brings you wellness and happiness, then please continue but I can't speak to anti-oxidant powers or pu-er. This is interesting.
If tea brings you wellness and happiness, then please continue but I can't speak to anti-oxidant powers or pu-er. This is interesting.
Re: Anti-oxidant power of raw vs ripe puerh
the biochemical price of breathing is aging. oxidation occurs all the time, in the present of oxygen. and even in the absence of oxygen, oxidation at a redox level occurs between molecules, with the exchange of electrons or protons.
the human body is divided into sophisticated niches. its hard to generalize on what "global" conditions is good for the body all the time, its the constant oxidation and reduction of molecules in the body that gives you life, the "change" is key, not the final state.
if you seek out one of the major basic building blocks of life, proteins, they exist in very controlled redox states, oxidation of cysteines to give disulfide bridges stabilizes protein structure, free exposed un-oxidized thiol groups are chemically and catalytically active.
more interestingly, within the cytoplasm of most cells, the environment is reducing, and outside cells, the environment is oxidizing. this is a very finely regulated state to which the dysregulation will lead to cell death.
on a larger level, the liver is one of the most oxidizing organs in the body, it under goes many chemical reactions (phase 1/2 metabolic processes). taking some antioxidants can benefit this organ.
in contrast, in the stomach/gastrointestinal tissue is well protected by mucus to prevent acid damage. this mucus is mostly made of protein, and is highly oxidized, forming a protective coating/sheet. strong reductants (anti oxidants included), can damage the protective layer, this is one of the main reasons of tea causing gastrointestinal problems.
the chinese say ：病从口入，illness enters through the mouth. it seems that the most common way for delivery of anything is still oral, and antioxidants need to be absorbed through the gut, and its benefits are realized in other parts of the body than the gut.
to put everything into context of aging, all teas contain anti-oxidants/reductants, and are considered to be "neutralizing", "clearing", a 大解药 of cooling nature, so most TCM practitioners do not recommend the consumption of tea with tonics, not during the same day or week even. however the older the tea, as it ages and "oxidizes", these effects are greatly reduced, to a point of age where relative to our digestive system and some tissues/organs the tea is "warm". this can take a very long time, the last i had sampled a tea that was warming to me and my wife (a licensed tcm physician), was a 50-60s liu an tea. it was a cool and rainy day, the tea was really warm and i was sweating.
shu-pu erh is less "cool" in nature, but you must be careful of the processing, the tea can have a lot of 湿气 (damp qi), the fermentation can result in 腐败之气, you can consider lightly baking it before brewing or leave it to age in a really dry environment. over roasted or heavily roasted teas has a lot of 燥气 (drying qi). if you can get a tea to a "neutral" state, then its consumption for your physical/mental enjoyment lead to minimal health detriment.
sheng pu-erh or gushu pu-erh is still debated some times in the TCM field, no major conclusions yet, and probably will need a couple more generations of "sacrificial" consumers to give enough data/info to know its long term health effects. in '85 or so, xia guan factory had gotten the government authorities to look into the viability of using gushu material into tea cakes, this was because plantation tea was insufficient for the sudden rise in demand. it was simply assessed that gushu material was "non-toxic".
another food for thought, these trees in the deep forests have existed for thousand (s) and many hundreds of years, this material never made it into all the various editions of 本草, never used as a tonic nor therapeutic. the tribes only harvested the early buds of spring, and their tea was brewed by roasting/baking the tea, cooking it into a soup and adding various additives. in the several hundred to thousand years of existence, it was never made into a tribute tea, never in large scale into products till the recent couple of decades.
i've to admit that gushu tea gives people the impression that it has a very intense "cha-qi", and this experience on the psychology of us is probably mediated through the high theanine content that acts on the brain.
"gu shu cha-qi" needs to be clarified and studied. the major qi that governs life revolves around yuan qi, wei qi, zhen qi, ying qi, zong qi, etc, it will be interesting to know what the tea does to the dynamic equilibriums.
on the aging note again, not all herbs become less potent with age, some herbs, i.e. chen pi, lian qiao, and many others improve through aging, some become even more potent. ginseng ginsenosides may have poor solubility, low volatility, and in aging or intense double boiling, break down of the heavier non polar ginsenosides gives more active, faster acting and more volatile derivatives that can penetrate the body deeper
complicated subject! but intellectual discussion welcome.
the human body is divided into sophisticated niches. its hard to generalize on what "global" conditions is good for the body all the time, its the constant oxidation and reduction of molecules in the body that gives you life, the "change" is key, not the final state.
if you seek out one of the major basic building blocks of life, proteins, they exist in very controlled redox states, oxidation of cysteines to give disulfide bridges stabilizes protein structure, free exposed un-oxidized thiol groups are chemically and catalytically active.
more interestingly, within the cytoplasm of most cells, the environment is reducing, and outside cells, the environment is oxidizing. this is a very finely regulated state to which the dysregulation will lead to cell death.
on a larger level, the liver is one of the most oxidizing organs in the body, it under goes many chemical reactions (phase 1/2 metabolic processes). taking some antioxidants can benefit this organ.
in contrast, in the stomach/gastrointestinal tissue is well protected by mucus to prevent acid damage. this mucus is mostly made of protein, and is highly oxidized, forming a protective coating/sheet. strong reductants (anti oxidants included), can damage the protective layer, this is one of the main reasons of tea causing gastrointestinal problems.
the chinese say ：病从口入，illness enters through the mouth. it seems that the most common way for delivery of anything is still oral, and antioxidants need to be absorbed through the gut, and its benefits are realized in other parts of the body than the gut.
to put everything into context of aging, all teas contain anti-oxidants/reductants, and are considered to be "neutralizing", "clearing", a 大解药 of cooling nature, so most TCM practitioners do not recommend the consumption of tea with tonics, not during the same day or week even. however the older the tea, as it ages and "oxidizes", these effects are greatly reduced, to a point of age where relative to our digestive system and some tissues/organs the tea is "warm". this can take a very long time, the last i had sampled a tea that was warming to me and my wife (a licensed tcm physician), was a 50-60s liu an tea. it was a cool and rainy day, the tea was really warm and i was sweating.
shu-pu erh is less "cool" in nature, but you must be careful of the processing, the tea can have a lot of 湿气 (damp qi), the fermentation can result in 腐败之气, you can consider lightly baking it before brewing or leave it to age in a really dry environment. over roasted or heavily roasted teas has a lot of 燥气 (drying qi). if you can get a tea to a "neutral" state, then its consumption for your physical/mental enjoyment lead to minimal health detriment.
sheng pu-erh or gushu pu-erh is still debated some times in the TCM field, no major conclusions yet, and probably will need a couple more generations of "sacrificial" consumers to give enough data/info to know its long term health effects. in '85 or so, xia guan factory had gotten the government authorities to look into the viability of using gushu material into tea cakes, this was because plantation tea was insufficient for the sudden rise in demand. it was simply assessed that gushu material was "non-toxic".
another food for thought, these trees in the deep forests have existed for thousand (s) and many hundreds of years, this material never made it into all the various editions of 本草, never used as a tonic nor therapeutic. the tribes only harvested the early buds of spring, and their tea was brewed by roasting/baking the tea, cooking it into a soup and adding various additives. in the several hundred to thousand years of existence, it was never made into a tribute tea, never in large scale into products till the recent couple of decades.
i've to admit that gushu tea gives people the impression that it has a very intense "cha-qi", and this experience on the psychology of us is probably mediated through the high theanine content that acts on the brain.
"gu shu cha-qi" needs to be clarified and studied. the major qi that governs life revolves around yuan qi, wei qi, zhen qi, ying qi, zong qi, etc, it will be interesting to know what the tea does to the dynamic equilibriums.
on the aging note again, not all herbs become less potent with age, some herbs, i.e. chen pi, lian qiao, and many others improve through aging, some become even more potent. ginseng ginsenosides may have poor solubility, low volatility, and in aging or intense double boiling, break down of the heavier non polar ginsenosides gives more active, faster acting and more volatile derivatives that can penetrate the body deeper
complicated subject! but intellectual discussion welcome.
allthebest4u wrote:My burning question regards the anti- oxidantant power of sheng vs shu puerh. I am close to 65 yrs so aging sheng puerh makes little sense. But I'm very interested in a beverage that will maintain my health. I've bought a variety of cakes but wonder if shu or sheng would be better for me. I've read that shu is not regarded as legitimate pu by some purists but I really don't know.
Here's the crux of the biscuit...
I have 30 years of experience of preparing Chinese tonic herbs. All these years the common thread is that the older the herb is, the less potent.
So if puerh's flavor improves with age it must be at the expense of it's power.
I welcome feedback on this.
Re: Anti-oxidant power of raw vs ripe puerh
compressed aged and loose leaf aged has different TCM properties tooBW85 wrote:
I have heard that aged tea, both puerh and oolongs, have beneficial properties in TCM. Also I've heard of other traditional Chinese medicines being aged, such as snake wine. This is second hand though, I haven't personally studied TCM more than casual readings
some TCM herbs are "age invariant" as their properties are brought about by the chemical content of them, i.e. trace elements, elemental co-factors that are needed for proper enzymatic activities.
Re:
what!! you mean it doesnt sound like gibberish to you?..bonescwa wrote:I'm interested in the way kyarazen fuses TCM with plant biochemistry and human physiology... I can read it all day... Please don't stop
i can go on about these topics all day.. i usually write these posts in the morning.. and a sleepy me often becomes incoherent