Menghai reccomendations

One of the intentionally aged teas, Pu-Erh has a loyal following.

Postby Jeremy » Oct 31st, '08, 12:56

Me too! We should do a weekly thread that covers a factory. That way we can exaust all the possible info for each one during the week, then go to the next one.

I think one thread for all factories would be too big!

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Postby thanks » Oct 31st, '08, 13:00

Jeremy wrote:Me too! We should do a weekly thread that covers a factory. That way we can exaust all the possible info for each one during the week, then go to the next one.

I think one thread for all factories would be too big!


Fantastic idea Jeremy and Sal. Personally I think we should spend two weeks on the real big factories with how slow this forum normally moves. e.g. 2 weeks for Menghai, 2 weeks for CNNP, 2 weeks for Xiaguan, etc. etc. We could also do the confusing ones like FT, and some modern CNNP stuff.

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Postby Jeremy » Oct 31st, '08, 13:09

So Im gonna continue seeding this thread. Here is a partial list (from wikipedia of the recipes used by Menghai.)

Bĭngchá recipes (partial list):

Raw: 7432, 7532, 7572, 7582, 7742, 8542, 8582, 8972, 0622

Cooked: 7262, 7552, 7562, 7572, 7592, 7632, 7672, 7752, 8562, 8592, 0532, 0562


Here is also a list of some old bingcha from Menghai

http://www.teahub.com/cakepuerh.htm

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Postby brandon » Oct 31st, '08, 15:05

Salsero wrote:Is there any way that we could start some kind of annotated list of factories? Or maybe even better, a thread of best factories or interesting factories that our members have experience with? Or biggest factories or favorite factories or factories to avoid.

Maybe it's a poorly conceived idea, but this thread about just Menghai has been enormously helpful for me and I guess I would like to learn more.


Shameless wikicha plugging:
Bears has written a lot about the menghai factory already, and I started on a similar page for my favorite factory, Haiwan. Jason's article is really impressive and a good model.

http://wikicha.com/index.php/Haiwan_Tea_Factory
http://wikicha.com/index.php/Menghai_Tea_Factory

It is pretty hard to find info in English.

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Postby hop_goblin » Oct 31st, '08, 15:29

thanks wrote:
Jeremy wrote:Me too! We should do a weekly thread that covers a factory. That way we can exaust all the possible info for each one during the week, then go to the next one.

I think one thread for all factories would be too big!


Fantastic idea Jeremy and Sal. Personally I think we should spend two weeks on the real big factories with how slow this forum normally moves. e.g. 2 weeks for Menghai, 2 weeks for CNNP, 2 weeks for Xiaguan, etc. etc. We could also do the confusing ones like FT, and some modern CNNP stuff.


CNNP is not a factory Per'se. It was the governmental body that started in the 1970s which went pretty much obsolete in the late 90s. Additionally, FT is not a Factory either. It is a Taiwanese corporation that is more of a "vendor" that contracts XiaGuan to produce their stock.

I do like the idea, but it will probably only be benificial to do factories that have been a round for a while and discuss their stock. I am quite certain, as most people who research this stuff that after the puer craze is over, which currently is showing signs of slowing, these little factories will go under.

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Postby Salsero » Oct 31st, '08, 15:32

brandon wrote: Shameless wikicha plugging
That's great work on the Wikicha article, Brandon! I hadn't seen it. Wikicha plugging is a good thing. You're right that Bears has created a nice model.

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Postby Salsero » Oct 31st, '08, 15:41

hop_goblin wrote: CNNP is not a factory Per'se. It was the governmental body that started in the 1970s which went pretty much obsolete in the late 90s.
So who processes the CNNP product? Do they have their own factories or farm out the work? if so to who?

FT (For Taiwan?) is apparently similar to the Kunming consortium, 12 Gentlemen.

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Postby hop_goblin » Oct 31st, '08, 15:48

Salsero wrote:
hop_goblin wrote: CNNP is not a factory Per'se. It was the governmental body that started in the 1970s which went pretty much obsolete in the late 90s.
So who processes the CNNP product? Do they have their own factories or farm out the work? if so to who?

FT (For Taiwan?) is apparently similar to the Kunming consortium, 12 Gentlemen.


If memory serves me correctly, the CNNP was started in 1973 by the Chinese Govt. There was no privatization of factories which mean't that all factories belonged to the state. Menghai, KunMing, Simao etc. It was the job of the CNNP to oversee all state production of puerh. Think of it this way, if Budweiser was a state organization that oversaw all of the Bud in the US, they still have breweries in many places for distribution purposes. Sort of the same thing with the CNNP to some extent.

Fei Tai was started by an chinese outlaw so the legend goes.. For the most part, FT products are formulate for the taiwan markets because of differnt taste and higher standards. Here is a bit of back ground.


http://ancientteahorseroad.blogspot.com ... first.html

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Postby tenuki » Oct 31st, '08, 16:57

thanks wrote:I think the most universal recommendations are the 7542, the 8582, and in my opinion, the 7532. Not everyone will agree with 7532 as it's hard to find a good aged example of it in the west, but the few different batches I've had (801, 701, and one from 99) have all been excellent.


I agree with your assessment of the 7532.

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Postby Jim Liu » Oct 31st, '08, 17:48

An input on 'batch' number.

The batch number is almost most/exclusively used by Menghai Tea Factory and CNNP only, as a small factory would never come to that. The first digital is usually referring to the year, 6 for 2006, 7 for 2007 and etc. The remaining two digitals are for the serial batch numbers.

One batch represents a production of 1000 'jian'. While a 'jian' is basically a case that holds so many cakes, being a bamboo basket or a carton box, it used to be 84 cakes in a jian, but lately 42 cakes were also packed as one 'jian' - old fashioned called it 'small jian'.

An easy calculation, one batch has a total of 42,000 cakes nowadays.

Now after 1000 jian are made, the next batch number shall be adopted, so it goes from 801, 802 ...

It's well known that the first batch is usually the best, but there is always an exception. For example, I was told for 7542 cake, the batch 803 was better.

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Postby hop_goblin » Oct 31st, '08, 18:01

puerhshop wrote:An input on 'batch' number.

The batch number is almost most/exclusively used by Menghai Tea Factory and CNNP only, as a small factory would never come to that. The first digital is usually referring to the year, 6 for 2006, 7 for 2007 and etc. The remaining two digitals are for the serial batch numbers.

One batch represents a production of 1000 'jian'. While a 'jian' is basically a case that holds so many cakes, being a bamboo basket or a carton box, it used to be 84 cakes in a jian, but lately 42 cakes were also packed as one 'jian' - old fashioned called it 'small jian'.

An easy calculation, one batch has a total of 42,000 cakes nowadays.

Now after 1000 jian are made, the next batch number shall be adopted, so it goes from 801, 802 ...

It's well known that the first batch is usually the best, but there is always an exception. For example, I was told for 7542 cake, the batch 803 was better.


Thanks Jim for the extra input. I really try to stay away from batch numbers myself. I have tasted different batches for the same recipes a number of times and perhaps I am not as astute as some but they all taste and look the same to me. Perhaps they say that the first batch is always the best to assure that they will be able to make enough for their overhead for the rest of the season understanding that people want and will buy the first batch because of this perpetuated belief. :wink:

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2003 Menghai CNNP Grand yellow label

Postby Jeremy » Nov 3rd, '08, 10:08

Does anyone know what mountain this recipe uses? Does anyone like this cake/sample?

http://www.puerhshop.com/index.php?main ... cts_id=468



Thanks

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Postby Salsero » Nov 15th, '08, 16:48

OK, I just got a 2008 Mei Zi Qing cake made by De Hong ... because Orguz says it has “prune like notes, not bitter” and EdKrueger says DeHong is his favorite.

On the wrapper, among the few English words, it says "Ziyu Tea Processing Factory." Anyone know the difference between De Hong and Ziyu? I suppose De Hong has their tea processed in the Ziyu factory. Do they always use the same factory?

I am getting the impression that there is a trend in the industry for designers and factories to be separate companies. Xi Zhi Hao, De Hong, 12 Gentlemen don't seem to own factories the way that Menghai, SFTM, CNNP, Xiaguan do. Are these companies really designing the offerings or are they more marketing enterprises?

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Postby thanks » Nov 15th, '08, 23:06

Salsero wrote:OK, I just got a 2008 Mei Zi Qing cake made by De Hong ... because Orguz says it has “prune like notes, not bitter” and EdKrueger says DeHong is his favorite.

On the wrapper, among the few English words, it says "Ziyu Tea Processing Factory." Anyone know the difference between De Hong and Ziyu? I suppose De Hong has their tea processed in the Ziyu factory. Do they always use the same factory?

I am getting the impression that there is a trend in the industry for designers and factories to be separate companies. Xi Zhi Hao, De Hong, 12 Gentlemen don't seem to own factories the way that Menghai, SFTM, CNNP, Xiaguan do. Are these companies really designing the offerings or are they more marketing enterprises?


Sal, I hope this helps, but Babelcarp says Ziyu (紫玉) is short for Yongde Ziyu Cha Chang, (永德紫玉茶厂 or 永德紫玉茶廠) literally Yongde Purple Jade [Amethyst?] Tea Factory, which makes Pu'er in Yongde.

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