TeaChat

augie wrote:From my experience, I think that ChaQi is the stimulation of dopamine in the brain. I don't think it's from the caffeine because I don't get the crash like you get from Mt Dew or Diet Dew.

I only feel the qi with cooked pu, oxidized oolongs or houjicha. . . what does everyone else think?

You can get this same experience meditating, too.

I agree with this statement on meditation, though I've never felt this way from *meditating* I have experienced it while in a state of mild sensory deprivation and also during therapy my therapist will at times have me enter a form of guided meditation, under both circumstances I've experienced feelings and emotions similar to ChaQi.

This makes me feel like ChaQi on a less spiritual level has something to do with a chemical reaction in our bodies, though I'm not sure how the tea would heighten dopamine levels.

rabbit wrote:

augie wrote:From my experience, I think that ChaQi is the stimulation of dopamine in the brain. I don't think it's from the caffeine because I don't get the crash like you get from Mt Dew or Diet Dew.

I only feel the qi with cooked pu, oxidized oolongs or houjicha. . . what does everyone else think?

You can get this same experience meditating, too.

I agree with this statement on meditation, though I've never felt this way from *meditating* I have experienced it while in a state of mild sensory deprivation and also during therapy my therapist will at times have me enter a form of guided meditation, under both circumstances I've experienced feelings and emotions similar to ChaQi.

This makes me feel like ChaQi on a less spiritual level has something to do with a chemical reaction in our bodies, though I'm not sure how the tea would heighten dopamine levels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theanine

Theanine is known to increase dopamine levels in the brain.

I'm sure dopamine plays some part in the sensations people report as cha qi, however it can't explain everything. An increase of dopamine from an external source will usually increase sensations of pleasure and happiness. Certainly I have experienced happy qi, but I've also experienced warm qi, cool qi, energizing qi, nervous qi, sleepy qi, high qi, low qi, and full on drunk qi.

I don't think qi is foreign to western culture, we just have different names for it. Anyone who doubts the presence of qi must have had a mom who can't cook for crap, because I feel qi after every home cooked meal made with love!

tingjunkie wrote: I don't think qi is foreign to western culture, we just have different names for it.

It is not only in the naming. One has to be sensitive and aware of it.
Before I started learning martial arts and meditation and autogenic training I would not have noticed it. And when I heard of Qi I have been searching for the wrong things. It is NOT a mysterious energy as most westerners think. Even some western teachers I met explained it like this - and they are wrong.

“Every tree and plant in the meadow seemed to be dancing, those which average eyes would see as fixed and still." (Rumi).

ba 霸： overlord, despot, tyrant.

So 霸气/baqi literally means aggressiveness, tyranny or hegemony.

In the context of tea drinking it's used to describe a tea that is particularly 'bullish' in character and, as the Puer tea blog post suggests, this would include, but is not limited to, the component which is often referred to as cha qi. But it's not a kind of qi distinct from any another.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rNl5VRNLz_s/S ... abel_2.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rNl5VRNLz_s/S ... +label.jpg

There are Aggressive Qi and Strong Qi. One will make your head spin and stutter and the later will make you focus and in euphoria

http://themandarinstea.blogspot.com/200 ... -2008.html

But Tim, which type makes you put ABBA albums on and just DANCE?

tingjunkie wrote:But Tim, which type makes you put ABBA albums on and just DANCE?

Wah Qi.

...or the very rare Cha Cha Qi.

I had a batch of average store-bought (Chinese?) Sencha that had it in spades. I was able to enjoy that feeling regularly. I've never experienced it in any other Chinese green tea. I'm new to Pu-Erh and haven't tried a sheng,
but I haven't experienced it in a shou.

Yeah Ive experienced it very strongly with different teas. I have had a green kukicha which made me feel like Hercules That stuff had definite psychoactive properties...I've read that kukicha can contain very high doses of l-theanin, so that might be what caused it. On the downside, that tea could also give me headaches.

My favorite Chinese green tea is a lu xue ya, which gives me a somwhat similar feeling, although a bit milder.

It's not limited to green teas, I've had it with whites and oolongs as well, albeit somewhat differently. The green "tea high" made me feel very aware of everything that was going on, like an intense concentration and sharpness, while at the same time also relaxed. On the other hand, with the oolongs and the white teas the effect is more relaxation than concentration.

zeusmta wrote:In addition to caffeine, tea also contains:

Theanine, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theanine, which is reported to have pyschoacive properties.

Theobromine, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine, which is a compound similar in structure to caffeine.

Theophylline, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophylline, which is also a compound similar to caffeine.

Although present in small amounts, I can't help but think these compounds have something to do with the way tea can make one feel. It's also quite reasonable that these compounds could be present in varying amounts in different tea plants, which could help explain the variation in Qi from one tea to another.

I know I am a bit late in the game, but I want to throw in my 2 cents! I have been studying martial arts, Taoism, Buddhism, and tea in Korea for a while now, and qi has played a significant role in my educations.

I think that the quote up here is dead on, but also a bit hollow. We can take the reductionist approach so common when Westerners try to understand these kinds of ideas, and in many ways I think the reductionist approach is great, but I think that it misses the deeper, more spiritual aspects. People from cultures all over the world have spiritual experiences, sometimes from substances like tea, food, or even peyote, and sometimes from meditation, church, or music, and sometimes spontaneously. What is art if not a manifestation of what words cannot capture? I think the concept of qi is trying to explain to us how we work, giving us a tool through which to understand the world. (not to mention some cool Japanese cartoons)

So for chaqi, though I have read some skeptics and haters on teachat referring to it like the Emperor's Clothes, I have to vote in on the "very real" side of things. When tasting or buying tea, I look for how it makes me feel above how it tastes. My teachers here always ask me first how the tea makes me feel, then other questions. When Mike Harney says tea should make you smile, I interpret this to be what he means.

Also, someone noted feeling relaxed and alert, rather than just amped up. I was taught that the caffeine in puerh changes during fermentation, and so it metabolizes differently, causing different sensations. I don't drink coffee anymore because it makes me anxious. Tea, especially puerh, does not! But it does make ㅡe feel stronger, more alert, sharper, optimistic, and, most importantly, it fills up my energy reserves that get drained during heavy training. I consider these energy reserves to be qi (in Korea we talk about the "danjeon", the fountain of qi at the bottom of your core), and a good, aged sheng fills up my qi reserves like nothing else! I drank a 1960 loose leaf sheng that made my danjeon feel like it was on fire! Though I have noticed that all teas have some level of qi, the older puerhs ones have more, and shengs more than shous.

Last thought: learning about the directional flows of chaqi, I was taught that puerh pushes qi down, which is why a lot of people feel tired from it. I was also taught to drink oolong before puerh (opens up your "shinpo", a meridian line or some such along your chest), and maybe green tea after (pushed your qi in a circular motion), but not in reverse order. When I have tried puerh before oolong, it makes me feel a bit weaker and a bit sick. Interesting!

needaTEAcher wrote:

zeusmta wrote:In addition to caffeine, tea also contains:

Theanine, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theanine, which is reported to have pyschoacive properties.

Theobromine, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine, which is a compound similar in structure to caffeine.

Theophylline, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophylline, which is also a compound similar to caffeine.

Although present in small amounts, I can't help but think these compounds have something to do with the way tea can make one feel. It's also quite reasonable that these compounds could be present in varying amounts in different tea plants, which could help explain the variation in Qi from one tea to another.

I know I am a bit late in the game, but I want to throw in my 2 cents! I have been studying martial arts, Taoism, Buddhism, and tea in Korea for a while now, and qi has played a significant role in my educations.

I think that the quote up here is dead on, but also a bit hollow. We can take the reductionist approach so common when Westerners try to understand these kinds of ideas, and in many ways I think the reductionist approach is great, but I think that it misses the deeper, more spiritual aspects. People from cultures all over the world have spiritual experiences, sometimes from substances like tea, food, or even peyote, and sometimes from meditation, church, or music, and sometimes spontaneously. What is art if not a manifestation of what words cannot capture? I think the concept of qi is trying to explain to us how we work, giving us a tool through which to understand the world. (not to mention some cool Japanese cartoons)

So for chaqi, though I have read some skeptics and haters on teachat referring to it like the Emperor's Clothes, I have to vote in on the "very real" side of things. When tasting or buying tea, I look for how it makes me feel above how it tastes. My teachers here always ask me first how the tea makes me feel, then other questions. When Mike Harney says tea should make you smile, I interpret this to be what he means.

Also, someone noted feeling relaxed and alert, rather than just amped up. I was taught that the caffeine in puerh changes during fermentation, and so it metabolizes differently, causing different sensations. I don't drink coffee anymore because it makes me anxious. Tea, especially puerh, does not! But it does make ㅡe feel stronger, more alert, sharper, optimistic, and, most importantly, it fills up my energy reserves that get drained during heavy training. I consider these energy reserves to be qi (in Korea we talk about the "danjeon", the fountain of qi at the bottom of your core), and a good, aged sheng fills up my qi reserves like nothing else! I drank a 1960 loose leaf sheng that made my danjeon feel like it was on fire! Though I have noticed that all teas have some level of qi, the older puerhs ones have more, and shengs more than shous.

Last thought: learning about the directional flows of chaqi, I was taught that puerh pushes qi down, which is why a lot of people feel tired from it. I was also taught to drink oolong before puerh (opens up your "shinpo", a meridian line or some such along your chest), and maybe green tea after (pushed your qi in a circular motion), but not in reverse order. When I have tried puerh before oolong, it makes me feel a bit weaker and a bit sick. Interesting!

I know I'm very late as well but I wanted to say that you are definitely on to something with the oolong before puerh rule. I always feel much better when I drink my aged puerh last. However, I haven't tried a green tea after to put the Qi in circular motion but I have a high grade Lu Shan Yun Wu (Clouds & Mist) so perhaps I will give your Qi enhancement method a go!

I know the rule for tasting is light to dark, but I think we can safely discard rules for tasting when drinking to feel. I have been traveling now to for 8 months straight. Some training, but horrible sleep, bad diet, and horrible tea routine. I now notice no difference if I drink oolong before or after, but I think that will change when my body is cleaner and healthier. I have also noticed that puerh either gives me too much now (my tolerance is down but I will drink as I am accustomed) or I don't feel the tea as much. I just thought this was interesting and wanted to share..