Tong Qing Hao is Shu


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Tong Qing Hao is Shu

Postby chrl42 » Dec 13th, '08, 04:48

Below is an article wrote by Korean Puerh book interpreter Bak Yong Mo. Bak Yong Mo interpreted most of Puerh books in Korea and keeps a close relationship with Chinese Puerh experts including '10 Puerh expert of China'.

Tong Qing Hao, a king of Puerh, is one of the oldest Puerh factory dating back to Qing which virtually gone when China unified Puerh factories and run by goverment. Was once sold as 200,000 rmb (30,000 usd) at auction and was the gift Wen Jia Bao gave the British prime minister that shaked the Puerh community like Mao did with DHP back in 70's.


According to tea megazine, december's article wrote by Bak Yong Mo (famous interpreter of Chinese tea), one of the most famous 號級-Hao Ji Puerh Tong Qing Hao (同慶號) could be Shu Bing. Bak Yong Mo visited Zhang Shun Gao (張順高 : worked at Menghai Tea Leaf Research for 30 years and headed for the last 10 years, retired as a researcher at China Science Research Xishuang Banna tropical plant in 97) to hear opinions about making post-fermented tea by leaves grown in Korea and wrote down as followed.
Zhang Shun Gao showed him Tong Qing Hao Nei Piao <This factory has 100 years of history in Yunnan, picked spring thin and weak Bai Hao of Yiwu Zhengshan. Leaf is golden and thick, brewed color is red, strong flavor and great aroma. Nei Piao is inserted to distinguish from fake. Noticed by Tong Qing Hao> and explained "Color of leaf golden and taste of water 紅農-Hong Nong is no matter how to understand, doesn't fit the idea of Qing Bing and made leaf red, strong taste means tea after fermentation. To have red brewed color for Qing Bing requires at least 20 years, then it must hadn't made Nei Piap overseeing a change of few decades later. So this must mean fermented Shu.
Qing dynasty's Guangxi 21 year(1895), protocol with France "contructs commercial office in Yunnan Simao" and, 2 years later the same protocol was made with Britain. After researching and analyzed the facts during 1912 and 1923, exported Hong Cha via Simao was 白銀-Bao Yin 110,210 Liang(兩). Those teas were bought from Yiwu by Siping's sellers and exported. But in 1910, Yunnan didn't produce so-called Hong Cha yet, and produced few decades later. At this point, exported Hong Cha means fermented Puerh, Shu.
At that time, Tong Qing Hao when it is made, used Shu inside and Sheng outside actually to mix Sheng and Shu is easy but to mold by putting Mao Cha in a pocket so makes inside Shu/outside Sheng requires experienced skill. In 1930, Tong Shun Xiang's annual production was 500 Dan(1Dan is 75kg), Tong Chang was 400 Dan but Tong Qing Hao was 700 Dan so it was relatively big company."
Said by Zhang Shun Gao to insist that Tong Qing Hao was Shu.

If it is true, then it's a shocking news for tea enthusiasts because Qing Bing after 20 years..no after 30 years if it's perfectly dry-stored that coud be enjoyed without rejection. Then history of Puerh should be re-seen, and more ways of studies and analysis should be processed. But this is up to expert researchers', we consumers without asking Sheng or Shu, how old it is stored, how much it costs, Sheng is always good etc..should choose tea with no sanitizational problem and consider economic part that fits each one's taste. Many people have a fantasy about 80's Puerh but actually some wet-stored 90's Qing Bing has various taste, Hui Gan, camphor aroma etc..legendary flavor what Puerh is supposed to have so could offer a good experience. Aged Puerh doesn't price up because of its quality but quantity. To generalize 5~10 year aged Shu as well seems good decision from a point of consumer's view. (without having certain and objective data, so from personal and subjective view it's true that Qing Bing has stronger Cha Qi than Shu Bing. But only for well-made and stored and aged tea..)
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Postby Drax » Dec 14th, '08, 00:14

So.... I've read this twice now, and I'm still not sure I understand what the point is. The only reason I gave it a second try was because I just happened to be having my first try at some 2005 Tong Qing Shu (before I even saw this post).

Um... so somebody is saying that the old Tong Qing cakes were all shu? Or a mixture of shu and sheng? And this is a surprise because maybe people thought it was all just aged sheng?

?
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Postby chrl42 » Dec 14th, '08, 00:31

Drax wrote:So.... I've read this twice now, and I'm still not sure I understand what the point is. The only reason I gave it a second try was because I just happened to be having my first try at some 2005 Tong Qing Shu (before I even saw this post).

Um... so somebody is saying that the old Tong Qing cakes were all shu? Or a mixture of shu and sheng? And this is a surprise because maybe people thought it was all just aged sheng?

?


Hehe don't think too much I've just translated cos it thought it's a fresh news

I think the point was Tong Qing Hao, the most sought-after Puerh in history, was in fact post-fermented inside.

It's shocking of course, bcos how many times we have been talking about inferiority of Shu? both for making and tasting.

If it's true, then whats a point of spending $$ for aged Sheng meanwhile the most expensive Puerh was Shu. Or somethin like that..

I am not experienced Pu drinker, and I don't know if I fully understood the article either :P
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Postby odarwin » Dec 14th, '08, 01:02

hmm...

so what about the statement that shou was invented or began during the 70's as what mr. cloud wrote in his books...

-darwin
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Postby Drax » Dec 14th, '08, 08:48

chrl42 wrote:I think the point was Tong Qing Hao, the most sought-after Puerh in history, was in fact post-fermented inside.


Okay, I guess this is what I wasn't understand -- that it was the most sought-after. It may have said it in the article, but I guess I've learned to filter out (i.e. ignore) statements like that, because Pu-erh vendors make similar claims on *every* item they sell. :D
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Postby xuancheng » Dec 14th, '08, 09:30

odarwin wrote:hmm...

so what about the statement that shou was invented or began during the 70's as what mr. cloud wrote in his books...

-darwin


the process for making shu pu'er was developed in the 1970s in the Menghai factory. However, they just borrowed the traditional technique for making black tea or heicha. There are many places which make heicha around China, including Anhua in Hunan, and places in Guangxi, Sichuan, etc. Traditionally, pu'erh had been wet down when it was packed on horses to minimize leaf breakage. The heat from the horses bodies helps smaller portions to ferment faster. The wet storage of cakes also has a somewhat similar effect. Heicha traditionally is stacked in very large piles before being compressed and will produce its own heat, as well as ferment much faster.

Menghai standardized the process for pu'er. They made this into a traditional pu'er processing system. The Sheng/shu paradigm which we work under today is a result of their products. However, this technology existed in China for hundreds if not over 1000 years, so it is possible that pu'er tea produced before Menghai even existed (factory founded 68 years ago) could be called shou -- at least in retrospect -- if the processing technique or the final product resembles more closely today's 'shu' than it does 'sheng.'

more about heicha
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Postby chrl42 » Dec 14th, '08, 09:37

odarwin wrote:hmm...

so what about the statement that shou was invented or began during the 70's as what mr. cloud wrote in his books...

-darwin


It is a problem of Shu/post-fermented then. Because oldest script mentioning about post-fermented dates back to Ming dynasty.

I don't know how it differs in making post-fermented(Hei Cha) and Shu..

Or the writer was mentioning about old usage of Shu(back then it meant aged Puerh). We have to know the term Shu was born by some Pu sellers out of nowhere. For example, 70's 7572 had no Shu letter or anything like that.

Above article anyway portraits some experts complaint "Puerh studies don't follow up the speed of Puerh products". One of reason is unconscience manufacterer and sellers, so we could at least understand some hatred towards them at this point.
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Postby tony shlongini » Dec 14th, '08, 17:02

Newton and Leibnitz developed the calculus seperately and simultaneously, Einstein was not alone in his examination of questions that led to relativity, and we'd still be drinking shupu if the Menghai factory burned to the ground fifty years ago.

I'm not sure if liu bao predates shupu, but the point is there are several ways to skin a cat, and eventually people will discover or stumble upon the methods that produce a marketable product.
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