Review of Yuannian 8848 Summit Tea

[hop_goblin]

Take away what you will from my comments. Perhaps I may not have been tactful enough and possibly spoke more out of frustration and didn’t take into account learning curves. My intentions were never to impugn anyone’s contributions - to the contrary indeed. Your comments were indeed sincere and perhaps your palate will change with experiences – mine has. However, as I stated previously, I am far from being any form of tea expert and there are far more people who visit Tea Chat who are much more astute on the subject of pu-erh than I. Nevertheless, I have indeed made many mistakes, and will certainly make many more - especially as a consequence of not living in an area where there are no avid tea drinkers of others I can exchange banter and knowledge on the subject with. Or, the sheer reality that I do not speak the language. However, I have tried to uplift myself from this disadvantage by translating overseas forums, websites, etc,(to the best that Google will using its language tools), asking knowledgeable tea drinkers , both in the U.S. and abroad for opinions and advice. This said - the truth of the matter is that no one knows it all and for those who claim they do they are liars and I apologize if that is the impression that I left. My blog is just my humble contribution to the U.S. pu-erh drinking community - nothing more and nothing less and gets my mind off academia. I certainly never intended to use my blog to qualify my comments. However, I do believe Tea Chat or most forums for that matter are by definition a place to exchange information whether you agree are disagree. I just humbly disagree with the notion that an unknown factory which probably started as a result of the pu-erh bubble can produce a product that will stand the test of time. If people are happy with what they have purchased than more power to them and I wish them well. I know tea is just tea and perhaps I am just taking it a bit too seriously. However, what I do know is that money is money and if people continue to buy inferior stock, eventually it will affect us all since 1. the price of good quality pu will continue to be high and 2. vendors will make less of an effort to buy quality stock in the US as long as there is a market for this kind of stuff. Sorry so long but I wanted to be get my opinion across.

Sincerely,

Hop

[Drax]

I agree with puerhking. Drax, no one on here is out to put you down or say that your thoughts are wrong.

I think PK and The General are absolutely right, Drax. I love your enthusiasm and would be very sorry to see your voice in any way muffled due to self-consciousness. I don't think that's what Hop meant at all.

I don't mind disagreement. I don't mind constructive criticism, in fact I welcome it. I want to be clear on that.

But I also understand the internet strips away a lot of important context. So perhaps I should follow my own advice and move on...

In a recent post, Hobbes seemed to suggest that our regular internet suppliers may just not have the best stuff and we may be better off buying from boutique vendors, specifically he mentions Nada.

What think you two of that?

Very good question! I have definitely been restricted to a few number of sources.

It kind of reminds me when I used to run a mass spectrum sample.... I'd see all these little peaks, and maybe a bigger one would show up and I'd think "Oh, is that's what I'm looking for?" and then suddenly, a MASSIVELY HUGE peak would appear, and it would become extremely obvious that I was (stupidly) focusing on the "noise."

That's what I'm sort of currently worried about. Am I stuck in the noise of bad tea? Have I not even had a "good" tea...?? It's very possible, so I guess I press on.... but guidance and suggestions are always appreciate. Swapping helps, too!

[shogun89]

I plan on getting a tong of some 2009 8582, 7542 or something along the lines of that this year. Been in production a long time and produce some great teas. No to mention, I think they taste good young as well.

[Drax]

However, I have tried to uplift myself from this disadvantage by translating overseas forums, websites, etc,(to the best that Google will using its language tools), asking knowledgeable tea drinkers , both in the U.S. and abroad for opinions and advice.

Aww, man! You mean there's work involved in this??

*sulk*

*pout*

*scuff feet dejectedly*

Actually, going to the trouble of translating forums and stuff is really impressive. I can take everything you mention as a good example. I've definitely been pretty TeaChat-centric. Maybe it's time to put on the travelin' shoes and hike across the inter-globe in search of tea wisdom....

[Salsero]

there are far more people who visit Tea Chat who are much more astute on the subject of pu-erh than I.

Darn few!

[JustinW]

However, I do believe Tea Chat or most forums for that matter are by definition a place to exchange information whether you agree are disagree.

hop just wanted to share his experiences, and opinion so that others may learn from it. The world of puerh is very vast and there are a lot of mistakes that one can make, and Tea Chat is a place where I can learn from other peoples mistakes that way I don't have to suffer the consequences of myself making the mistake.

I just humbly disagree with the notion that an unknown factory which probably started as a result of the pu-erh bubble can produce a product that will stand the test of time.

I don't know jack about pu, but I think this is a reasonable opinion. Of course you never know until you try it.

[Herb_Master]

Drax I like your posts I want to see many more of them!
Hop I like your posts I want to see many more of them!

Isn't life wonderful, we have our ups and downs, then we have a cup of tea and life is great again.

I have been barnstorming my way through the Oolong forum because of my enthusiasm and occasionally get rebuffed by experienced, seasoned drinkers.

Sometimes they make me think "oops I was a little silly saying that!" sometimes I think they are being a little tunnel-visioned.

It is of no import - without discourse and views from all angles my learning process would be a lot slower!

Long live tea!

[thanks]

I certainly did not intend to create controversy, just honest conversation. This is an open forum, and I believe that this particular conversation has been productive. I really hope my humility is on display, and I'm really just as new to this as everyone else. I even state in the first post of my blog that it was a selfish endeavor, just keeping track of personal tasting notes so that as my stuff ages, I can look back and see how it (and myself) have changed over the years, and if other people can glean information off of it then all the better. Everyone's been making some great points, and I think it really all comes back to square one. The one thing I've learned, and that I can say is solid advice for everyone is to SAMPLE. SAMPLE, SAMPLE, SAMPLE! Sample things you never would sample. Sample old, young, ripe, raw, and everything in between. I know it's difficult because after a little bit you spend more on samples than cakes, but this does create more discriminating tastes. My dear friend and fellow cohort in this obsession we share for pu'er loves making the joke that I have more samples than he has beengs! And he has a lot of beengs at that.

Overall, everyone have fun and relax. It's a hobby. A leisurely hobby at that. I love this community, and love that we can all grow and share our experiences. All of our views and opinions I feel are valuable, and Drax I thank you for your review. I'm also super glad when I see differing opinions on certain teas as well.


Also, a little food for thought. A while back I bought a sample of the 99 Big Green Tree, which at the time almost had no negative opinions online in English. Seen as a relatively young "classic" pu'er, I felt I had to try it to put it in my taste perspective. At the time I hadn't had much older stuff, just a lot of poorly HK stored classic recipe stuff from the early 90's on, so when I first tried the 99 Big Green Tree, I was intrigued. I thought it to be excellent tea, very complex and lively for it's age. A little while later after sampling a lot of better older teas, I had forgotten about the 99 Big Green Tree until Hobbes posted his not so flattering notes on the tea, which led me to revisit it. Upon revisiting it I was surprised that I found myself in agreement with him. Not only that, but I had had other teas of younger vintage that tasted similar to this tea, but at a fraction of the cost- all claiming to be Yiwu. It was a huge learning experience, and my tastes have changed because of it. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Well it's a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B. I find pleasure in teas that before I thought were just plain too expensive, but at the same time, they're still... well, too expensive.

I see pu'er much in the same light as I see my obsession with the game of Go. Ten minutes to learn, a lifetime to master.

[hop_goblin]

I can say is solid advice for everyone is to SAMPLE. SAMPLE, SAMPLE, SAMPLE! Sample things you never would sample. Sample old, young, ripe, raw, and everything in between.

Good advise! Sampling is training. Especially if you get samples which have been determined by masters or aficionados who have been in collecting for decades (mostly in China and Taiwan) claim a particular tea will have an excellent chance for aging. Also, it is good advise never to put too much stock in what producers say for obvious reasons. Keeping up with what these folks are saying and then corroberating the information with your own palate certainly gives learning experiences.

[tony shlongini]

I just humbly disagree with the notion that an unknown factory which probably started as a result of the pu-erh bubble can produce a product that will stand the test of time.

You have captured my feelings in a nutshell.

However, what I do know is that money is money and if people continue to buy inferior stock, eventually it will affect us all since 1. the price of good quality pu will continue to be high and 2. vendors will make less of an effort to buy quality stock in the US as long as there is a market for this kind of stuff.

Sincerely,

Hop

The ill-informed consumer is the unscrupulous seller's best friend, and it is our job to spread the word. Tea literally does grow on trees, and it shouldn't be so difficult to deliver a top quality product to the marketplace. It is avarice, greed, and ignorance that are our enemies.

[TIM]

The ill-informed consumer is the unscrupulous seller's best friend, and it is our job to spread the word. Tea literally does grow on trees, and it shouldn't be so difficult to deliver a top quality product to the marketplace. It is avarice, greed, and ignorance that are our enemies.

I Salute to that Tony. Well Said! Hope you don't mind I quote that to a greedy seller"s" in the future

[funkmaster nice]

If Americans stopped buying teabags and demanded blessed loose leaf... oooo that will be the day! The common available tea in China is way better than the powder they sell in the states. I think education is good!

[shogun89]

If Americans stopped buying teabags and demanded blessed loose leaf... oooo that will be the day! The common available tea in China is way better than the powder they sell in the states. I think education is good!

Yeah, but the prices will rise due to demand. And dont forget, things are SOOOO much cooler when nobody knows about them. Thats why I love puerh, the common knowledge has no clue about it.

[bearsbearsbears]

I take issue with two ideas in your post, Hop.

First, a minor issue:

they are not even meant for aging. They are made for the tibetan market. This is not to say that they wont age.. everything ages.. however, I will not invest time and space to for something that will be avg or even below avg in 15 years.

Not exactly true. 15 year old baoyan productions are pretty damn good by aged tea standards, depending on their storage. Older baoyan productions are even better. The 1930s jincha I had (not Xiaguan, but still Tibetan export quality) was amazing. Not that baoyan today is guaranteed to be that good, but even baoyan from 2001 is aging really well, IMO.

Second, the idea that you can't get a good tea for $10/bing. I don't think this is correct.

A $10 tea from a retailer is not likely to be good, considering that the tea traveled through both a wholesaler and a retailer before arriving to the consumer. YSLLC and Puerhshop must be making a good deal of profit to support themselves. The wholesale cost of that cake might actually be $5-6. The production cost was probably half this. A cake that cost $2.50-$3 to produce is probably not very good.

Still, all told, my personal cost for producing Nannuo Lao Shu Cha came to approx $17/cake--at the height of the market prices in Spring 2007. Good nannuo high mountain plantation tea (approx 20-40 year old bushes) was $20 per kilo, or roughly $6.80 per cake for what I consider to be good age-worthy tea. Cut the old tree tea with the young tree tea, and you could produce a cake partially lao shu cha and partially high elevation plantation tea for $10--easy. Of course, that cake would be priced at maybe $20 retail...

Now imagine you blend Menghai area high elevation young tree mao cha ($10-15/kilo) with some lao shu cha...you could possibly produce good cakes and sell them in bulk for $10 apiece.

Lastly, the prices have come down dramatically since 2007. Maybe Yiwu and Banzhang "zhengshan" mao cha still command high prices, but if I were to visit the same farmers to make my cakes again, my net cost would be much lower.

So, it's entirely possible. But, knowing Chinese businessmen and the less than ethical profiteering of the pu'er boom, it's not likely that cake was made in 2006-2008.