Real Da Hong Pao: where and how much?

Owes its flavors to oxidation levels between green & black tea.

Re: Real Da Hong Pao: where and how much?

Postby entropyembrace » Nov 27th, '10, 16:27

edkrueger wrote:
entropyembrace wrote:Also the older generations of clones have higher status than the newer generations because they are closer to the original trees.

Closer in distance and growing conditions and age of the plant. Presumably the genetic material is the same.


Sorry, I thought that would be obvious since that´s what clone means.

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Re: Real Da Hong Pao: where and how much?

Postby gingkoseto » Nov 27th, '10, 17:28

I've never figured out what makes the few parental trees so special. Unlike some unique parental trees of Dan Cong, for Da Hong Pao, there is no evidence that the few parental trees were the only surviving individuals of their varietal (Qi Dan, I think) before the cloning technique. They are old and they are at a good location, which make them good. But there is no evidence that they are the only old ones at a good location. So I don't know what's so special about them. Those guys who paid $20k on the "original" Da Hong Pao tea never speak up and tell us how special it is :shock:

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Re: Real Da Hong Pao: where and how much?

Postby edkrueger » Nov 27th, '10, 18:44

entropyembrace wrote:
edkrueger wrote:
entropyembrace wrote:Also the older generations of clones have higher status than the newer generations because they are closer to the original trees.

Closer in distance and growing conditions and age of the plant. Presumably the genetic material is the same.


Sorry, I thought that would be obvious since that´s what clone means.

I wasn't disagreeing.

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Re: Real Da Hong Pao: where and how much?

Postby edkrueger » Nov 27th, '10, 18:48

On second thought, I wonder if there might be some genetic changed from this type of cloning. They plant cuttings from the parents. F0 cuttings are used for F1 plants. F1 cuttings are used for F2 plants. etc. If there is any I assume it would be rather minor though.

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Re: Real Da Hong Pao: where and how much?

Postby skilfautdire » Nov 27th, '10, 18:53

Wuyi Star Gift Pack Da Hong Pao Stick Ooolong Tea 135g

(shortened link to Dragon Tea House)

http://minilien.fr/a0llvk

Looks like this tea is part of a Bohea tea family...

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Re: Real Da Hong Pao: where and how much?

Postby entropyembrace » Nov 27th, '10, 19:01

edkrueger wrote:On second thought, I wonder if there might be some genetic changed from this type of cloning. They plant cuttings from the parents. F0 cuttings are used for F1 plants. F1 cuttings are used for F2 plants. etc. If there is any I assume it would be rather minor though.


Yes there´s the possibility that mutations from random genetic damage can be propagated this way but because genetic change through asexual reproduction is so much slower than through sexual reproduction it´s unlikely to be significant on the timescale and number of generations involved. I think the differences in age of the plants and growing locations would have a much greater effect on the resulting tea.

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Re: Real Da Hong Pao: where and how much?

Postby edkrueger » Nov 27th, '10, 19:29

entropyembrace wrote:
edkrueger wrote:On second thought, I wonder if there might be some genetic changed from this type of cloning. They plant cuttings from the parents. F0 cuttings are used for F1 plants. F1 cuttings are used for F2 plants. etc. If there is any I assume it would be rather minor though.


Yes there´s the possibility that mutations from random genetic damage can be propagated this way but because genetic change through asexual reproduction is so much slower than through sexual reproduction it´s unlikely to be significant on the timescale and number of generations involved. I think the differences in age of the plants and growing locations would have a much greater effect on the resulting tea.

I agree, but I am not sure the same rules of asexual drift apply to plants. In many ways plant genetics are quite different than animal genetics, this might be one of these.

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Re: Real Da Hong Pao: where and how much?

Postby edkrueger » Nov 27th, '10, 19:32

skilfautdire wrote:Looks like this tea is part of a Bohea tea family...

Bohea is another romanization of wuyi.

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Re: Real Da Hong Pao: where and how much?

Postby edkrueger » Nov 27th, '10, 19:34

gingkoseto wrote:Those guys who paid $20k on the "original" Da Hong Pao tea never speak up and tell us how special it is :shock:

I seriously doubt they drank it. Smells a lot like old vintage vinegar... err... I mean wine.

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Re: Real Da Hong Pao: where and how much?

Postby Marco » Nov 28th, '10, 07:05

edkrueger wrote:
gingkoseto wrote:Those guys who paid $20k on the "original" Da Hong Pao tea never speak up and tell us how special it is :shock:

I seriously doubt they drank it. Smells a lot like old vintage vinegar... err... I mean wine.

It really could ruin your day if you oversteep your $20k breakfast tea. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: Real Da Hong Pao: where and how much?

Postby chrl42 » Nov 29th, '10, 01:05

gingkoseto wrote:I've never figured out what makes the few parental trees so special. Unlike some unique parental trees of Dan Cong, for Da Hong Pao, there is no evidence that the few parental trees were the only surviving individuals of their varietal (Qi Dan, I think) before the cloning technique. They are old and they are at a good location, which make them good. But there is no evidence that they are the only old ones at a good location. So I don't know what's so special about them. Those guys who paid $20k on the "original" Da Hong Pao tea never speak up and tell us how special it is :shock:


That some 4 left trees are reported to be Qi Dan, Qi Zhong and Bei Dou..

But unlike Puerh, Oolong's specialty doesn't come from soley genes, it comes from men. Some 2nd generation, 3rd generation DHP might not be different genetically speaking, but it can be different weatherly speaking, minerally speaking and most importanly techinically speaking :mrgreen:

One of my Korean Puerh sellers I know of once said, Oolong must be the most 'CHINA tea' the locals could be proud of, because it requires the technique which is a proof of history and culture of tea in China.

Not to say, Mongolian hotpot in Muslim town is a real proof, historically speaking :lol:

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Re: Real Da Hong Pao: where and how much?

Postby gingkoseto » Nov 29th, '10, 21:44

chrl42 wrote:That some 4 left trees are reported to be Qi Dan, Qi Zhong and Bei Dou..

But unlike Puerh, Oolong's specialty doesn't come from soley genes, it comes from men. Some 2nd generation, 3rd generation DHP might not be different genetically speaking, but it can be different weatherly speaking, minerally speaking and most importanly techinically speaking :mrgreen:

One of my Korean Puerh sellers I know of once said, Oolong must be the most 'CHINA tea' the locals could be proud of, because it requires the technique which is a proof of history and culture of tea in China.

Not to say, Mongolian hotpot in Muslim town is a real proof, historically speaking :lol:


I am seriously mouth watering! :o This is the season for a lot of lamb, beef and yan cha. I didn't get it earlier, but now I understand why some people like to have beef snack with tea session :D I wish I could get some now :shock:

Yeah as you said, technique is one of the most important factor to determine the final quality of oolong. Probably that's why it's always easier to get good shui xian than good da hong pao. Then the harder it's to get, the more people want it :wink:

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Re: Real Da Hong Pao: where and how much?

Postby bagua7 » Jan 9th, '11, 04:35

Anyway the DHP sold over at Postcard Teas is just cheap stuff for every day drinking. I am happy though as it is nice but not going to reach Nirvana with it. :lol:

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Re: Real Da Hong Pao: where and how much?

Postby brlarson » Jan 9th, '11, 18:05

mayayo wrote:Anyway the DHP sold over at Postcard Teas is just cheap stuff for every day drinking...:lol:


Perhaps you could provide us with notes about your experience with this tea?

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Re: Real Da Hong Pao: where and how much?

Postby SlientSipper » Jan 9th, '11, 23:37

I'll never get a sip of the real deal.... :cry:

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