Good quality Yancha


Owes its flavors to oxidation levels between green & black tea.

Re: Good quality Yancha

Postby NOESIS » Nov 29th, '11, 16:38

Nice to know that a tea merchant can unload his older stock by giving it a "high roast" and the use of good marketing. :lol:
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Re: Good quality Yancha

Postby TIM » Nov 29th, '11, 17:58

wh&yel-apprentice wrote:TC'er "Tim/Toki" sells traditional high roasted Wuyi @TheMandarinRoom/TeaGallery , and yet insinuates that 'real' experienced tea drinkers will want less high-roasted, which masks the true tea flavors. Implies that if you like higher roasted wuyi (which are very close in color/flavors to black/red teas with deep copper/orange/red color infusions) you are ignorant/inexperienced >>> I believe Herb_Master likes high roasted teas...eye of the beholder.


Now you are really stepping on my toe. Wh&Yel.
Please read carefully what I suggested on the other post.

The higher roasted/fired oolong does not apply to DC which is from Quangdong/phoenix/Wudong, because DC is mainly about high notes. It applies to Wuyi imo. Please get that right. ~T

Tead Off wrote:
BioHorn wrote:
wh&yel-apprentice wrote:
Oni wrote: it should be kept under 10 seconds for first 4 brews, and it lasts a long time 10 + or even more brews



If find, roasting levels + oxidation levels make a big difference in perception---no matter where the tea comes from.

As a fanatically demanding fruit taster, probably one of the most severely selective on the planet, I don't find "peachy" or "apricot" fruity aromas in any of the DC's I tried so far, which includes more than a dozen or so that Imen brewed for me at her old Tea Habitat store.


Oni wrote:I generally brew Dancong with short timing, like after a short wash for 20 seconds, 10 seconds, 20, 30 and so on, I use around 6 grams to 120 ml gaiwan. I have a Chao Zhou teapot too. I need a CZ tea kettle, and I am well equipped for Dancong.




I find these to be interesting observations. I agree with the changes with roasting levels. However I do find many Phoenix DC's have either a floral flavor or a stone fruit aroma. These include some of Imen's private stash. You are fortunate to have had it brewed by her. I would love to have that experience. For most I usually use 5-6 grams in a 110 ml pot with short brew times.

Hojo wrote when I bought some of his tea and reminded me many times to brew in a porcelain gaiwan. (Nice he is so responsive and passionate.) Still have yet to brew it.

In one of the other Dancong threads, Tim pointed out the higher level DC's are not roasted. This can be verified by the look and color of the wet leaves after brewing.


Please note: I am Not /TeaGallery either!
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Re: Good quality Yancha

Postby Herb_Master » Nov 29th, '11, 18:39

Not sure how I get dragged in to this :?:

My dislike of lightly roasted/oxidised yan cha was due to some purchases I made from seven cups 4 years ago, that had less pulling power for me than really green Anxi..

I do like medium light roast with leaves that have a decent amount of oxidisation.

I also dislike over roasted Yan Cha that Hou De from time to time sells.
I don't want a mouthfull of charcoal and burned twigs.

I try never to criticise other posters point of views, each of us is all part of the great conundrum in what decides that a tea is great. Each to his own, I have had my nose broken several times playing rugby, I smoke heavily and consume heavily spiced food; those without these encumbrances may appreciate qualities that are beyond me.

I used to enjoy well (not heavyily) oaked wines from France and Spain that used the tightly grained Limousin Oak, those wines that use New World or Balkan oak in my opinion tend to overpower the wine.

Let each of us enjoy what each of us enjoys.

Many Teachatters suffer from TAD (Teaware affected Disorder) "Got to buy, Got to buy, Got to buy" Like Oni I too suffer from TLAD (teaLeaf AD) "when you want something - you want something" - if plan A fails, then try Plan B - I for one hope Oni enjoys the tea he HAS purchased, and hope eventually he will enjoy the tea that he WILL purchase.
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Re: Good quality Yancha

Postby Oni » Nov 30th, '11, 03:07

I am constantly learning from my tea experiences, I am still learning how to heat water the right way, use the right water and the right vessel to heat it, use "martial heat", and not to let it reach full boil without measuring, I leared the diffrence while drinking gyokuro, I bought a tetsubin from horaido, and a Lin ceramic kettle, these tought me a lot, I pour my tea directly from the yixing teapot to my cups, so I feel I know enough to try some high quality teas, my preferences are oolongs.
I need to define what I feel is the high quality tea, it should be organic, I am concerned about unknown chemicals reaching into my body, it should be grown at an altitude, at least 600 meters above sea level, the teabush should be older than 10 years, so an established plantation is what I am looking for, old bush has deeper taste, and I am looking for tea made from the right cultivar for the region, no Wu Yi Dancong I mean, but Beidou nr. 1 from Wu Yi, or not blended Tie Guan Yin, but the original cultivar from Anxi.

Lately I bought Dragon teahouses nonprail TGY and YS best imperial grade TGY, the diffrence was in the mouthfeel, and aftertaste, the YS was way better because the aroma was lingering long after finishing the cup and the mouth and throat was coated by scent, when breathing out I could feel a flower garden, after the third infusion, this effect reached almost to my nose, this made the diffrence, I am expecting something from high quality teas that I can only judge while I am consuming it, so I cannot do this from viewing the pictures, trusting the vendor is a way to be sure you get what you paid for.

P.S. Not affording a tea never stops me from purchasing it, but the worst thing is that I might run out of tea (like when I bought a 300$ tetsubin) if I spend my monthly tea money on a weeks worth of tea, but sometimes on rare ocasions I did this, it was like when I bought Tai Ping Hou Kui from Hojotea, or Dancongs from Imen, many gyokuros for 60 $, in gerneral my tea buget is around 100 to 150 $ /month, but mostly 100 $, so I can buy 3 or 4 teas with an average price of 30 $, this means I cannot get the highest grade from vendors that I trust, I was hoping that I can get high quality tea for a low price, but that is utopia.
Last edited by Oni on Nov 30th, '11, 03:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Good quality Yancha

Postby bagua7 » Nov 30th, '11, 03:22

Oni wrote:and taiwanese oolongs, from those one can get a pretty decent quality for an affordable price...


A bit off-topic,

Sorry Oni, but not from the vendors that cater to the Western market. You are yet to try the real deal, for this very reason I have decided to go back to Taiwan and buy the stuff there directly myself.
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Re: Good quality Yancha

Postby Oni » Nov 30th, '11, 03:26

bagua7 wrote:
Oni wrote:and taiwanese oolongs, from those one can get a pretty decent quality for an affordable price...


A bit off-topic,

Sorry Oni, but not from the vendors that cater to the Western market. You are yet to try the real deal, for this very reason I have decided to go back to Taiwan and buy the stuff there directly myself.

Try Houde, that is good stuff, I do not know how they get better than these.
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Re: Good quality Yancha

Postby verus » Dec 10th, '11, 20:22

This topic makes me want to get a packet of cheap teabags from the supermarket...and enjoy a nice cuppa for a great price. :D

Look, if you think you can drink the best of the best of teas on a regular basis, the stuff that only a few kgs per year are made of by the most acclaimed tea experts, you might need to become a millionaire businessman first. It's like someone who enjoys wine saying they only want to drink Chateau Petrus, which goes for thousands of dollars per bottle.

There's plenty of good tea that's affordable. Save the expensive stuff for a special occasion.
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Re: Good quality Yancha

Postby tingjunkie » Dec 18th, '11, 01:46

verus wrote:This topic makes me want to get a packet of cheap teabags from the supermarket...and enjoy a nice cuppa for a great price. :D

Look, if you think you can drink the best of the best of teas on a regular basis, the stuff that only a few kgs per year are made of by the most acclaimed tea experts, you might need to become a millionaire businessman first. It's like someone who enjoys wine saying they only want to drink Chateau Petrus, which goes for thousands of dollars per bottle.

There's plenty of good tea that's affordable. Save the expensive stuff for a special occasion.


Even expensive tea is affordable, compared to other luxuries. A good, enjoyable bottle of wine at $7-8 is a challenge. Still harder to find is a $15 bottle of wine which makes you pay attention and say "woah."

So, imagine spending $1/g on a"woah" level yancha, and using 12g in a 120ml pot. I can guarantee you will get over 8 infusions (more than the 750ml found in a wine bottle) and still spend 20% less than a mediocre wine.

As long as you are not struggling to make ends meet, life is too short for middle of the road tea. Having said that, there ain't nothing wrong with a big pot of flavored scented whatever, just as long as you don't compare it to "real tea." :wink:

To answer Oni's original question, I'll second Brandon's recommendation for Jing, but agree that they are hit and miss. Their current offerings of Traditional Shui Xian and Tie Luo Han were both very enjoyable in my opinion. Not the same level as Mandarin's or Tea Gallery, but they are above mediocre, and for the price, they will do just great as an everyday drinker.
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Re: Good quality Yancha

Postby Poohblah » Dec 18th, '11, 14:42

tingjunkie wrote:Even expensive tea is affordable, compared to other luxuries. A good, enjoyable bottle of wine at $7-8 is a challenge. Still harder to find is a $15 bottle of wine which makes you pay attention and say "woah."

So, imagine spending $1/g on a"woah" level yancha, and using 12g in a 120ml pot. I can guarantee you will get over 8 infusions (more than the 750ml found in a wine bottle) and still spend 20% less than a mediocre wine.

I don't think it's fair to compare similar volumes of wine and tea. Most reasonable wine enthusiasts wouldn't down an entire bottle of wine in one night by themselves, but it's not all that unreasonable to drink a couple liters of tea in the same time period.
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Re: Good quality Yancha

Postby AdamMY » Dec 18th, '11, 14:59

Poohblah wrote:
tingjunkie wrote:Even expensive tea is affordable, compared to other luxuries. A good, enjoyable bottle of wine at $7-8 is a challenge. Still harder to find is a $15 bottle of wine which makes you pay attention and say "woah."

So, imagine spending $1/g on a"woah" level yancha, and using 12g in a 120ml pot. I can guarantee you will get over 8 infusions (more than the 750ml found in a wine bottle) and still spend 20% less than a mediocre wine.

I don't think it's fair to compare similar volumes of wine and tea. Most reasonable wine enthusiasts wouldn't down an entire bottle of wine in one night by themselves, but it's not all that unreasonable to drink a couple liters of tea in the same time period.


But these high quality teas can often last for a couple of days. They even last for a couple of days when you are sharing with several other people. 120mls could be enough to split between 4 people, and its quite easy for 3-4 people to kill a single bottle of wine in a night ( if not more than a single bottle). I think its possibly one of the best comparisons out there. But then again in any type of product that has a variety of "grades" there are those who will only buy the least expensive, and then there are those that buy the most expensive. There are a whole lot more types of wine selling for over a thousand dollars a bottle, than there are tea's selling for over a thousand dollars for 25 grams.
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Re: Good quality Yancha

Postby wyardley » Dec 18th, '11, 17:37

Poohblah wrote:I don't think it's fair to compare similar volumes of wine and tea. Most reasonable wine enthusiasts wouldn't down an entire bottle of wine in one night by themselves, but it's not all that unreasonable to drink a couple liters of tea in the same time period.


I totally agree with tingjunkie, and "affordable luxury" is the term I'd usually use as well.

I usually won't drink a really expensive tea by myself either. But either way, even a moderately priced, recent vintage wine, from a well regarded area could be $200+, and wine doesn't keep for very long after opening. And if we're talking about really old wines, well... let's just say that the prices can increase quite a lot. With tea leaves, you have a lot of flexibility with how much you use at a given time, and you generally don't have to use all of the tea leaves you purchased within a 1-2 day period.

The analogy to wine doesn't totally match up, of course -- for one thing, when brewing tea, you probably have a few more variables under your control than with wine; with wine, you need to consider storage and drinking temperature, whether or not to decant, etc., but there aren't quite as many ways you can mess it up, assuming the wine itself is good. Also, I think people are less likely to drink tea with a meal, or to pair tea with food, whereas with wine, one often drinks it along with a meal.
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Re: Good quality Yancha

Postby Poohblah » Dec 18th, '11, 18:17

wyardley wrote:
Poohblah wrote:I don't think it's fair to compare similar volumes of wine and tea. Most reasonable wine enthusiasts wouldn't down an entire bottle of wine in one night by themselves, but it's not all that unreasonable to drink a couple liters of tea in the same time period.


I totally agree with tingjunkie, and "affordable luxury" is the term I'd usually use as well.

I usually won't drink a really expensive tea by myself either. But either way, even a moderately priced, recent vintage wine, from a well regarded area could be $200+, and wine doesn't keep for very long after opening. And if we're talking about really old wines, well... let's just say that the prices can increase quite a lot. With tea leaves, you have a lot of flexibility with how much you use at a given time, and you generally don't have to use all of the tea leaves you purchased within a 1-2 day period.

The analogy to wine doesn't totally match up, of course -- for one thing, when brewing tea, you probably have a few more variables under your control than with wine; with wine, you need to consider storage and drinking temperature, whether or not to decant, etc., but there aren't quite as many ways you can mess it up, assuming the wine itself is good. Also, I think people are less likely to drink tea with a meal, or to pair tea with food, whereas with wine, one often drinks it along with a meal.

I think you're correct, but I believe you interpreted my statement differently than how I intended it to be interpreted. My gripe was with this comparison:
tingjunkie wrote:So, imagine spending $1/g on a"woah" level yancha, and using 12g in a 120ml pot. I can guarantee you will get over 8 infusions (more than the 750ml found in a wine bottle) and still spend 20% less than a mediocre wine.
I take issue with this because I don't think it's quite accurate to say that tea is cheaper than wine if you spend less on tea than on a the same volume of wine. Tea and wine, while they form nice analogies because they are indeed both affordable luxuries and so forth, are not consumed at comparable rates. Therefore, I don't think it's fair to say that good tea is cheaper than good wine if 750mL of good tea is cheaper than 750mL of good wine.
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Re: Good quality Yancha

Postby Tead Off » Dec 19th, '11, 00:15

Never understood the comparison of tea to wine. Tea to coffee comes closer. In fact, in Yunnan, many farmers are beginning to grow coffee instead of tea because it is more profitable. How about tea to marijuana? :D
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Re: Good quality Yancha

Postby Dresden » Dec 19th, '11, 00:23

Tead Off wrote:How about tea to marijuana? :D

Psilocybin tea, perhaps...
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Re: Good quality Yancha

Postby gingkoseto » Dec 19th, '11, 00:26

Tead Off wrote:Never understood the comparison of tea to wine. Tea to coffee comes closer. In fact, in Yunnan, many farmers are beginning to grow coffee instead of tea because it is more profitable. How about tea to marijuana? :D

In Yunnan, they say, "everything is more profitable than tea". That "everything" includes coffee, rubber tree plantation, mining, hunting (or poaching), smuggling heroin... :shock: Not that tea is not profitable, but look at all the options! :mrgreen:

I don't think cost of tea is comparable to other commodities. I believe what matters is whether a tea worth $100 is sold for $500, and how the $100 or $500 is distributed across the food chain.
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