High Quality Tie Guan Yin?


Owes its flavors to oxidation levels between green & black tea.

Re: High Quality Tie Guan Yin?

Postby wyardley » Dec 19th, '13, 19:26

I don't think "good things are wasted on novices", whether it's tea, wine, or something else. You may not appreciate it in the same way as someone with more experience, but in way, that beginner's mind can be a big blessing at times. I think many of us have had formative experiences with good teas that are part of why we stayed interested in tea.

And, while there may be some exceptions, my feeling is that in general, really good tea will shine through, even if it's not brewed perfectly.
User avatar
wyardley
 
Posts: 1904
Joined: Jan 11th, '
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: High Quality Tie Guan Yin?

Postby shah82 » Dec 19th, '13, 19:39

No. If you gave a good cheese of strong character to any random person, the chances are, they won't like it at first appeal, any more than they'd like durians or avocados or any other consumable with intense flavors.

The other side, is that novices tend to only notice broad qualities, and nothing subtle. A good tea, or a good wine, will satisfy them just as much as truly excellent tea or excellent wine. Cheaper dancongs have the same qualities as really nice ones, and it can be difficult for someone starting out to understand why more expensive dancongs are chased after. Some people honestly do prefer the more coarse flavor, but many people simply don't understand that the flavor is coarse, or quiet, or tinny, or unlively, etc, etc, but still is tasty.
shah82
 
Posts: 1016
Joined: May 9th, '0

Re: High Quality Tie Guan Yin?

Postby Tead Off » Dec 19th, '13, 22:37

Without question, a beginner is not going to appreciate the subtleties of wine or tea. They can still enjoy drinking, but would not be able to differentiate what makes a wine or tea a cut above.

I am reminded of my own experience in the early 80's, having drunk many different kinds of wine. One evening, after a particularly good sale, a friend of mine found a '67 Corton, a superb Burgundy wine. It changed my whole view of how I looked at wines from that moment on. The lightbulb went on.
User avatar
Tead Off
Vendor Member
 
Posts: 3210
Joined: Apr 1st, '0
Location: Bangkok

Re: High Quality Tie Guan Yin?

Postby Chip » Dec 19th, '13, 23:35

Tead Off wrote:The lightbulb went on.

(not singling out TO, he just happened to mention the lightbulb moment which was along my train of thought)

Doesn't everyone deserve a crack at lightbulb moments ... as long as they are on that path of discovery.

I would think we all have had tea related lightbulb moments ... and since it was a new experience, we were all inexperienced to a degree.

Having said that, I prefer the climb to the top method of discovery ... but I would not say this is the "correct" path for everyone. For me it is nice to have incremental and perhaps dimmer lightbulb moments on the way to the brightest bulb in the pack.
User avatar
Chip
Mod/Admin
 
Posts: 21937
Joined: Apr 22nd, '
Location: Back in the TeaCave atop Mt. Fuji

Re: High Quality Tie Guan Yin?

Postby Tead Off » Dec 20th, '13, 00:15

The lightbulb moment is a humbling moment because you realize how little you understood before. It's not the end, though.
User avatar
Tead Off
Vendor Member
 
Posts: 3210
Joined: Apr 1st, '0
Location: Bangkok

Re: High Quality Tie Guan Yin?

Postby Ursinos » Dec 20th, '13, 00:43

all these analogies of tea to wine, it has me wondering. I've been told by people really into wine that you don't need to spend insane amounts of money for a bottle of wine with higher quality. Can this be said for Tea as well? Can you find surprisingly quality tea at "budget" prices out there sometimes?
Ursinos
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Dec 11th, '
Location: Southern Ontario

Re: High Quality Tie Guan Yin?

Postby Tead Off » Dec 20th, '13, 01:15

Depends on what you consider quality and what you consider budget. You can get decent tea for lower prices. This is a big subject and not easy to answer.
User avatar
Tead Off
Vendor Member
 
Posts: 3210
Joined: Apr 1st, '0
Location: Bangkok

Re: High Quality Tie Guan Yin?

Postby AdamMY » Dec 20th, '13, 02:34

shah82 wrote:No. If you gave a good cheese of strong character to any random person, the chances are, they won't like it at first appeal, any more than they'd like durians or avocados or any other consumable with intense flavors.

The other side, is that novices tend to only notice broad qualities, and nothing subtle. A good tea, or a good wine, will satisfy them just as much as truly excellent tea or excellent wine. Cheaper dancongs have the same qualities as really nice ones, and it can be difficult for someone starting out to understand why more expensive dancongs are chased after. Some people honestly do prefer the more coarse flavor, but many people simply don't understand that the flavor is coarse, or quiet, or tinny, or unlively, etc, etc, but still is tasty.



You are being a bit over general here aren't you? Granted we may get certain reactions fairly predictable from young children, but when you start to get into the realm of adults there are far more factor's at play than simply strong flavors. By that I mean if you learn to be able to detect nuances and differences in one food item, those can more quickly be adapted to another food item.

So someone who realized they love chocolate can come to see the differences in wine or puerh tea easier. It works the other way as well, or we could throw cheese into the mix. Honestly I find myself often when trying new things having the first impression of "that is different what is going on here" when I try something beyond my comfort level, rather than this is bad (though part of me may want to initially judge it that way). A good example of this is sour beers, which a lot of people including seasoned beer drinkers have trouble with, because the initial thought is "this beer went bad" until you realize that it actually is a nice flavor profile and works wonderfully.

I guess we are quibbling over what is a random person. In the end I think any person once they've reached a certain age, has felt strongly enough about some food item, that they have felt compelled to delve into the many facets of flavors it can have.
User avatar
AdamMY
 
Posts: 2336
Joined: Jul 22nd, '
Location: Capital of the Mitten

Re: High Quality Tie Guan Yin?

Postby Tead Off » Dec 20th, '13, 05:16

AdamMY wrote:I guess we are quibbling over what is a random person. In the end I think any person once they've reached a certain age, has felt strongly enough about some food item, that they have felt compelled to delve into the many facets of flavors it can have.


I can't agree with this last paragraph although you would think this would be the case. Perhaps when you get older, you'll realize that many people never really look deeply into anything. I was 43 when the tea lightbulb went off in my head. 37 when the wine lightbulb went off. Some lightbulbs never go off. :lol:
User avatar
Tead Off
Vendor Member
 
Posts: 3210
Joined: Apr 1st, '0
Location: Bangkok

Re: High Quality Tie Guan Yin?

Postby betta » Dec 20th, '13, 12:48

Tead Off wrote:The lightbulb moment is a humbling moment because you realize how little you understood before. It's not the end, though.


I would describe that moment as the moment you got "the wine enlightenment" :mrgreen:
The difference to that of buddhism, is that rather than leaving everything behind and be content with everything one has, you become an avid wine collector/drinker and at least closer to a wine connoisseur everyday :mrgreen:
User avatar
betta
 
Posts: 511
Joined: Jan 30th, '

Re: High Quality Tie Guan Yin?

Postby Noonie » Dec 20th, '13, 14:31

Just wanted to toss this out: it's all about value (i.e., the point at the spending curve where you stop getting more of a product for what your spending, based on your personal experience).

If a retailer knows me, and understands my experience with his/her product, then they will please me most by selling me what they think I will value the most (i.e., can I appreciate a $50 bottle of good wine, or only a $20 bottle of good wine...can I taste the differences, assuming they exist). Most of the time I can taste the difference in a typical $12 bottle of wine to a $30 bottle (e.g., smoother, more flavor characterstics...even if I can't name them). But I've had some $75+ wines and I couldn't discern much of a difference to justify the extra amount.

To use a non-beverage example: ever compared supermarket chicken to chicken purchased from a farm that does not taint the bird with stuff...that is worth paying double for!
Noonie
 
Posts: 75
Joined: Aug 28th, '

Re: High Quality Tie Guan Yin?

Postby shah82 » Dec 20th, '13, 16:41

Keep in mind, and answering Ursinos:

Truly good tea, wine, and other things, will cost a fortune, relative to peers, for any consumable with a wide consumer base. The issue is that more experienced consumers are able to *direct cash at specific desired qualities* and pay precisely for what is desired. Thus they save a lot of money on various "pretty good" things.

What is typically the case is that most better things have some sort of consistent sales volume, and they sit among other inferior things that have better marketing (because they need it, or an unknown quality needs greater awareness). The obstacle here is that you can pay more money than you really need to for indifferent quality products. Some of those wines Noonie tried are most likely of that sort. Sometimes, it's just something more subtle that's personally not worth paying for. You have to have a strong idea of what price range should have what qualities, and what the major different subtypes of the product are like. For example, you will not ever get a good (that has distinct character and all of the things a good puerh should have) example of any major region of puerh for less than about $150/357g for new tea, as of 2013. That the chances of you getting the best examples of the best areas are infinitesimal without lots of cash *and* good connections. Almost all of it is never sold in anything like public circumstances. Even just to get a *good* example of the best areas require lots of hunting and sampling among boastful entries, because those aren't really sold, either. And trust me, once you have a good idea of what *good* means, you really don't wanna go back. But everyone who's not rich and connected has to work the angles, learn brands and teashops, and find out the best compromises for the respectable amount of cash. Usually, outside of swimming in the junk of old teashops in Taiwan or estate sales or something like that, you will not usually get things for less than they are worth.
shah82
 
Posts: 1016
Joined: May 9th, '0

Re: High Quality Tie Guan Yin?

Postby the_economist » Dec 20th, '13, 17:52

wyardley wrote:I don't think "good things are wasted on novices", whether it's tea, wine, or something else. You may not appreciate it in the same way as someone with more experience, but in way, that beginner's mind can be a big blessing at times. I think many of us have had formative experiences with good teas that are part of why we stayed interested in tea.

And, while there may be some exceptions, my feeling is that in general, really good tea will shine through, even if it's not brewed perfectly.


This novice gives thanks to opportunities given by others to try good things. It made a tea-world of a difference and I still continue to draw lessons from the memory.
User avatar
the_economist
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Sep 4th, '1

Re: High Quality Tie Guan Yin?

Postby wert » Dec 21st, '13, 10:35

The easiest way a novice can become more than one is to try more, the "good" and the "bad". You can only tell what's "good" by trying the "bad" and vice verse. Furthermore, what's "good" to one person might not be "good" to another. I guess it partly depends on where you are in your tea journey and partly on cultural and personal taste.

So, the definition of "high quality" is at a more personal level. I think we should be more open minded and avoided being preconditioned by commercial forces as to what represented "high quality".

Ramblings of this novice....
wert
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Aug 26th, '

Previous

Instant Messenger

Permissions
You cannot post new topics
You cannot reply to topics
You cannot edit your posts
You cannot delete your posts
You cannot post attachments
Navigation