High quality oolong

[ABx]

It seems so much yancha is over-roasted.

There's a lot of very cheap stuff that's nothing but roast, but the good stuff takes a year or two of rest for the roast to balance out. Once it does, though, it can offer a lot more than the lower roast stuff. If it's zheng yan then it damn well better be roasted like that

If you're paying for better quality, be prepared to just store it for a couple of years before writing it off.

It's true what you say, but you have to know which teas are going to balance out over time. Some do not. When I taste a tea, there has to be more than just the roast, even if the roast was done fairly recently, you should be able to discern the mineral qualities, sweetness, and mouthfeel. In most cases, it won't magically transform itself into something good unless there is something good there from the start. Don't you agree?

Over time you can learn to discern a good roast from a bad. The first step, for someone that sees yancha as generally over-roasted on the whole, is not to dismiss one that's higher-end but might need rest. The rest comes with experience; particularly when you've stored a few (of varying quality) yourself. Until then, theory won't be of much use.

[BioHorn]

It seems so much yancha is over-roasted.

There's a lot of very cheap stuff that's nothing but roast, but the good stuff takes a year or two of rest for the roast to balance out. Once it does, though, it can offer a lot more than the lower roast stuff. If it's zheng yan then it damn well better be roasted like that

If you're paying for better quality, be prepared to just store it for a couple of years before writing it off.

It's true what you say, but you have to know which teas are going to balance out over time. Some do not. When I taste a tea, there has to be more than just the roast, even if the roast was done fairly recently, you should be able to discern the mineral qualities, sweetness, and mouthfeel. In most cases, it won't magically transform itself into something good unless there is something good there from the start. Don't you agree?

Over time you can learn to discern a good roast from a bad. The first step, for someone that sees yancha as generally over-roasted on the whole, is not to dismiss one that's higher-end but might need rest. The rest comes with experience; particularly when you've stored a few (of varying quality) yourself. Until then, theory won't be of much use.

I try to give time before forming an opinion. That can become a hassle with small samples.

There have been some yanchas with medium roast that, with time, have turned into lovely things. Same goes for DC oolong.

[wyardley]

There have been some yanchas with medium roast that, with time, have turned into lovely things. Same goes for DC oolong.

I have had teas change for the better (and kicked myself for not buying more), but generally, I've found that if I don't enjoy drinking a tea now, I am not likely to enjoy drinking it later.

I agree with the above that, over time, you become better at distinguishing the two.

[ABx]

Some of the best yancha I've had tasted like nothing but roast for the first couple of years.

Sampling is hard in general, since teas often have to acclimate after shipping. So I've also had some yancha (several years old) that only tasted like roast for the first couple of pots (not steeps), until the tea acclimated; no amount of leaving the leaf out to breathe helped in a couple of cases, until about the 3rd pot, or so, when it offered a lot more from then on. So these days I just try to get 50g for sampling, although I can usually tell when a tea will have more to offer.

[BioHorn]

Some of the best yancha I've had tasted like nothing but roast for the first couple of years.

Sampling is hard in general, since teas often have to acclimate after shipping. So I've also had some yancha (several years old) that only tasted like roast for the first couple of pots (not steeps), until the tea acclimated; no amount of leaving the leaf out to breathe helped in a couple of cases, until about the 3rd pot, or so, when it offered a lot more from then on. So these days I just try to get 50g for sampling, although I can usually tell when a tea will have more to offer.

Thank you for the feedback, especially on your preferred sampling amount. This is a perennial problem for picking yancha... maybe, as you say, with more time it will get easier?! I do usually leave weeks, months, years (!!!) before sampling after shipping.

[ABx]

Thank you for the feedback, especially on your preferred sampling amount. This is a perennial problem for picking yancha... maybe, as you say, with more time it will get easier?! I do usually leave weeks, months, years (!!!) before sampling after shipping.

I find that with a lot of tea, it takes about 3 pots (pour into tin, open the tin, scoop out tea, close back up over the course of a week or two) before the tea will acclimate (not just yancha, but yancha is probably the worst about it). Sometimes I can do it just by opening the tin and shaking once per day for a few days (to get air down throughout the leaves, as if I was scooping out leaf), and sometimes just letting the leaf sit out to breathe for a while before brewing works, but once in a while I get something that's just impossible to acclimate (other than just trying and waiting). Origin Tea's TLH was like that, and I only had 25g (which means that I only got 1 decent pot out of it; the others tasted like nothing but roast, although I could tell that there was more to it).

If it's a young tea, though, don't expect much out of it right away. It'll change pretty dramatically over the first year (all roast will), and *may* still taste of just roast into the second. That first year is a big one, because it might even seem crappier than it is (especially if you drink it during the fan qing phase).

But yeah, generally speaking you'll get to know which ones have promise and which ones don't, but I usually try not to judge ahead of time; there's a good chance your palate will change in that time anyway, and things can happen in the meantime. Previously mentioned characteristics can be a good sign, sometimes you can just tell that it's a good roast, etc., but sometimes those things just aren't apparent until it rests and opens up. Just make sure the leaf gets some air (maybe not as important in the first year of rest), rather than just sitting sealed up. I have some that's a few years old that I just recently unsealed for the first time (I got a few 'big' bags), and it still tastes heavily of roast. I know it'll ease up relatively quickly, though. I like to use tins because the leaf gets air when you pour in and as you use it (aside from the more common reasons to use tins). The right amount of air can be important in general.

I'd just say to go with almost any real zheng yan, and try to make it last for a couple of years so you can see how it changes (even if it's good now). I've had ones that I liked after a year or two, but then *really* liked later on; I seem to recall one of Hou De's seemed "better than average but not really special" for a year or two, but opened up to be a lot more than I thought it would when it reached 3-4 years.

[shah82]

My Houde '05 laocong SX is for special moments only, now...No roast element at all, just lots of tongue-coating sweetness.

[Tead Off]

What is not often talked about in judging yancha is the smell of the leaves. The aroma of the dry leaves tell a lot about minerality, sweetness, etc. To discern good yancha, you have to become familiar with the different aromas of the dried leaves and their depths/complexity. If all that can be smelt is roast, the tea is not ready to drink.

Dancong teas have a similarity in the sense that you can usually smell the dry leaves and know if the tea is ready to drink and is going to deliver the flavor that the tea is famous for. So much dancong is inferior. Even though a lot of the best dancong is not roasted in the way that yancha is, those principles of dry leaf smell apply. Maybe this is a general rule of tea when I think about it.

[William]

What is not often talked about in judging yancha is the smell of the leaves. The aroma of the dry leaves tell a lot about minerality, sweetness, etc. To discern good yancha, you have to become familiar with the different aromas of the dried leaves and their depths/complexity. If all that can be smelt is roast, the tea is not ready to drink.

Dancong teas have a similarity in the sense that you can usually smell the dry leaves and know if the tea is ready to drink and is going to deliver the flavor that the tea is famous for. So much dancong is inferior. Even though a lot of the best dancong is not roasted in the way that yancha is, those principles of dry leaf smell apply. Maybe this is a general rule of tea when I think about it.

Wise words!

[Haddemall]

Gentlemen,

I follow your discussion with great interest.

I'm new to tea but have extensive experience with cellaring both wines and Havana cigars.

Sounds like high end teas goes through a ''period of sickness'' and needs a bit of time to develop and ''come together'', just like any other agricultural product.

I'm just hoping my small tea collection doesn't perish inside those cheap plastic foil baggies........

[Frisbeehead]

Taiwan tea craft?
+or-?

don't bother, their stuff is pretty bad in general. some good stuff, but 80% is medicore/overpriced.

mandarin's tea room is easily the best (chinese) stuff available in the west, but the prices reflect that fact.

sounds like you're looking for Taiwanese oolongs. I personally like Floating Leaves the most, but I've also tried and enjoyed Beautiful Taiwan Tea (prob. your best bet if you want just Oriental Beauty and Jin Xuan).

Floating Leaves is awesome. Just got some 2015 Spring Jin Xuan, 2015 Spring Baozhong, and House Black tea from her. I love all of them. Plus she threw in a free sample of their Spring Alishan! I have yet to try that one.

Beautiful Taiwan is great too. I got their Lishan and the Alishan they were having a sale on (gone now unfortunately) and I love both.