The Unknown or Contradictory Origins of Shui Xian

[Herb_Master]

Still not able to locate some of my original sources, so will update here as I stumble across them.

This source corroborates that the She people almost certainly did migrate from Fenghuang to Wuyishan though only mentioning Eastern Fujian.

But does not specify that they brought
a) The Shui Xian bush back
b) The technique for making Oolong


http://en.chinagate.com.cn/english/1152.htm

Most believe that the Shes' ancestors originally lived in the Phoenix Mountains in Chaozhou, Guangdong Province. They left their native place to escape the oppression of their feudal rulers. That's why they called themselves "guests from the mountains."

only says they had migrated before 14th century

But


These 2 source suggests they were already living in Fujian in the 7th Century

url]http://www1.chinaculture.org/library/20 ... _24064.htm[/url]

http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/017 ... up/she.htm

This source equates the symmetry of and importance of tea with the She communities living in and enjoying both Wuyi Rock Tea and Phoenix Tea
http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/017 ... up/she.htm

I have looked for 2 hours now and cannot find the reference to tea being brought home to Fenghuang from Wuyi - but this paper demonstrates the likelihood of reciprocal cultural influence
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/k ... awler=true

I will continue searching, but for now I need a break. H

[Salsero]

Most impressive! Thanks.

Are you a compulsive researcher?

[gingkoseto]

Wow! Herb_Master, very thorough research!

A few quick additions:
1. In the book China Oolong Tea (no English version yet, but the first half is very good about history) by Gong Zhi, the author mentioned that by Song Dynasty (around 10-13C), there was already gong fu tea drinking in Guangdong, but the tea was mostly from Fujian. At that time, people in Guangdong called their tea "Fujian tea". By Ming dynasty (14-16C), people in Guangdong still drink mostly "Fujian tea". Then in Ming Dynasty, Gongdong Feng Huang Shui Xian started to be produced in large amount to satisfy the market. The author cited historical poems and letters in which tea in Guangdong was called "Fujian tea".

2. Based on what I read, most scholars believe feng huang shui xian is from Fujian, but some believe it's from Feng Huang Mountain region and even Fujian shui xian was from Guangdong. In one article, the author cited Lu Yu's The Book of Tea (which is the oldest book recording tea drinking). The same article also mentioned that according to some record from Song Dynasty, tea from "Feng Mountain" was a royal tribute tea. The author interpret "Feng Mountain" tribute tea as "Feng Huang Mountain" shui xian. The above 2 lineage of evidence were also used by some other scholars to support that shui xian originated from feng huang, Guangdong.

3. By double checking the citation from the article I mentioned in "2", I found that in Lu Yu's book, tea from Shao Zhou, Guangdong, was mentioned. But Shao Zhou is not in Feng Huang region of Guangdong. So most likely the Guangdong tea mentioned in Lu Yu's book is not Shui Xian at all. Also the "Feng Mountain" mentioned in the book of Song dynasty is very likely to be another location in Guangdong, not far from Feng Huang, but not Feng Huang. So the evidence cited in "2" is not quite valid.

4. The author mentioned in "1" is from northern Fujian. The author mentioned in "2" is from northern Guangdong. To me where the tea originated doesn't matter at all. Fujian is a small province. Fenghuang, Guangdong is steps away from Fujian. It's not all impossible for the similar shui xian varieties to be naturally established simultaneously in both Fujian and Guangdong. But it seems that to local people where the tea originated and who was the real ancestor of the tea is a huge matter.
I remember there was a very old post dug up recently on this board about ancestor of some oolong or black tea. It was a long, long post with unclear language. But it seems the poster tried to say that tea originated from his hometown, cultivated by his ancestor, not elsewhere, not anybody else

5. Recording of tea history has not been formal during the past hundreds of or thousands of years in China. Drinking tea was simply a spare time hobby and not academic. Therefore writing about tea and studying tea history was not respected as some serious work. So historical record about his is not complete or systematic, and there are surely invalid sources and contradictions between records.

[Herb_Master]

Wow! Herb_Master, very thorough research!

5. Recording of tea history has not been formal during the past hundreds of or thousands of years in China. Drinking tea was simply a spare time hobby and not academic. Therefore writing about tea and studying tea history was not respected as some serious work. So historical record about his is not complete or systematic, and there are surely invalid sources and contradictions between records.

Yet not that thorough yet! I had only been browsing 'She' and 'Guangdong' so far.
Somewhere in my previous browsing I have come across more information - usually I find when browsing for tea topic (a) [with little luck] I come across info about tea topic (b) so switch tack and start taking notes only to find something interesting about tea topic (c) - My research skills being unable to keep track of all this accounts for why I am unable to find the answer that has been requested.

I agree with your points but will start with no. 5 - which I have to totally agree with.
Tea drinking, popular tea, famous teas, and even Tribute teas - were all a product aand consequence of their time and era. We have to take into account that tea production methods and tea processing methods and tea drinking styles have all continued to evolve since the herbal concoctions consumed for medicinal purposes 3,000 years ago.

Hence a famous Guangdong Tea paid as tribute 800 years ago, may have been from the same area as fenghuang but from tea bushes that were used to make tea in the style that was then popular. As tea production and tea processing became more sophisticated it may have been apparent that different tea bushes rose to pre-eminence. As this (or whatever really happened) is undocumented we can only guess at the truth, but we can seek to discount anything that becomes obviously untrue.

[Herb_Master]

Most impressive! Thanks.

Are you a compulsive researcher?

A tiny bit, but mainly I love a peg to rest my tea drinking hat on

[Herb_Master]

4. The author mentioned in "1" is from northern Fujian. The author mentioned in "2" is from northern Guangdong. To me where the tea originated doesn't matter at all. Fujian is a small province. Fenghuang, Guangdong is steps away from Fujian. It's not all impossible for the similar shui xian varieties to be naturally established simultaneously in both Fujian and Guangdong. But it seems that to local people where the tea originated and who was the real ancestor of the tea is a huge matter.
I remember there was a very old post dug up recently on this board about ancestor of some oolong or black tea. It was a long, long post with unclear language. But it seems the poster tried to say that tea originated from his hometown, cultivated by his ancestor, not elsewhere, not anybody else

I agree it does not REALLY matter, but like I answered to Salsero I like to define the pegs for my own satisfaction.

Plus after outlining my view of the origins of Shui Xian on another post XuanChang asked me to cite my sources - having come across so many contradictory and sometimes downright false statements about tea on the web myself - I thought it only fair to try and justify my statement to XuanChang.

Yes you can see it on advertising and on statements from locals in various tea travel blogs. "Not Invented Here" is not allowed, they all have to brag this was the original village, the original bush, the original everything - the one and only place for the GENUINE article. Understandable as part of their sales pitch but not helpful when trying to discover the reality.

[Herb_Master]

Why ? All this research and correspondence on Shui Xian

When I have not been too impressed with it yet.

Hou De's 2004 Spring Wuyi Yen Cha Zheng Yen Lao Cong Shui Xian
was extremely disappointing, charcoal and leather from start to finish

This may be because I am a novice, articles like this suggest that heavily roasted Shui Xians are a connoisseurs delight that is now an endagered species.
http://teamasters.blogspot.com/2006/09/ ... -xian.html
I seriously need to learn the art of brewing aged and heavily roasted Oolongs.


Teacuppa's Lao Cong Shui Xian Oolong Tea
Nothing like the Hou De Charcoal Blast, warm friendly and fruity for the first 3 infusions but mellow and bland - however 4th infusion onwards got more delicate and I can start to see the 'Narcissus' coming through
I need to start this with a meal and consume the first 3 brews while eating, then go all contemplative in a post-prandial enjoyment of the subsequent brews.


However as I am living and breathing Shui Xian as I write, it is time to open a new packet


Hou De's 2007 Spring Zhen Yen Handcrafted 'Shui Xian'

well this is an improvement - I am still on my first infusion and Like It.

I put my glasses on to read the packet details "Roasting: Medium Fired" maybe even Salsero would like this one, since like me he has problems with High Fired Hou De's.

I like it a lot, plenty of body, but with character and finesse, no 'Narcissus' showing yet, but far too good for "Restaurant Tea".

At the front of the mouth and tip of the tongue some very agreeable woody tones, as it slides through the mouth some fruit and silky texture, and as it disappears an impression of minerals (maybe even 'Rock Rhyme' and a catch on the back of the throat that is quite pleasant and the overall impression lingers for a very long time.

Why am I drinking from a 180ml Yixing, it has all gone, time for a 2nd infusion

[Herb_Master]

2. Based on what I read, most scholars believe feng huang shui xian is from Fujian, but some believe it's from Feng Huang Mountain region and even Fujian shui xian was from Guangdong. In one article, the author cited Lu Yu's The Book of Tea (which is the oldest book recording tea drinking). The same article also mentioned that according to some record from Song Dynasty, tea from "Feng Mountain" was a royal tribute tea. The author interpret "Feng Mountain" tribute tea as "Feng Huang Mountain" shui xian. The above 2 lineage of evidence were also used by some other scholars to support that shui xian originated from feng huang, Guangdong.

3. By double checking the citation from the article I mentioned in "2", I found that in Lu Yu's book, tea from Shao Zhou, Guangdong, was mentioned. But Shao Zhou is not in Feng Huang region of Guangdong. So most likely the Guangdong tea mentioned in Lu Yu's book is not Shui Xian at all. Also the "Feng Mountain" mentioned in the book of Song dynasty is very likely to be another location in Guangdong, not far from Feng Huang, but not Feng Huang. So the evidence cited in "2" is not quite valid.

Like you, the majority of the articles that I come across suggest that Shui Xian originated in Fujian yet one or two proclaim it as fenghuang's own.

Some however proclaim that it was actually discovered in Daho west Fujian by a farmer originally a native of Anxi, and it was not long before it was being planted in Wuyi Shan.

In one of my books "All the Tea in China" by Kit Chow and Ione Kramer they describe how Shui Xian was discovered in Daho. A tree that was known for a thousand years fell over at the start of the eighteenth century, and while lying on the ground several 'layered' plants grew from it. A migrant from Southern Fujian transplanted them accidentally discovering the technique of layering. The technique and the strain quickly spread to Wuyi.

All well and good - But

In the same book they describe all Fenghuang DanCong select teas as being as being derived from the Song Dynasty Shui Xian strain - that was used as a tribute tea

I believe that would pre-date the start of the eighteenth century !

Like you I would not mind guessing that some of these Shui Xians are incredibly similar in many ways but actually derived naturally as Qi Zhongs and were totally unconnected.

I believe the tree shape of the Fenghuang trees is naturally totally different to those in Fujian, being tall tree like trees in Fenghuang rather than Bushy Trees in Fujian.

It would be interesting for Scientists to compare DNA, Chromatography etc and make some pronouncements.

I think some of the naming of Trees is done by comparing the results of the tea brewed from them, I wonder if the Shui Xians in some areas were named 'Shui Xian' because they felt, looked and smelt like 'Shui Xian'

I have to take my hat of to the Taiwanese who make no bones about the origin of their Tea Bushes and often take a more professional approach to accurately describing them and the resultant brews.

[Herb_Master]

1. In the book China Oolong Tea (no English version yet, but the first half is very good about history) by Gong Zhi, the author mentioned that by Song Dynasty (around 10-13C), there was already gong fu tea drinking in Guangdong, but the tea was mostly from Fujian. At that time, people in Guangdong called their tea "Fujian tea". By Ming dynasty (14-16C), people in Guangdong still drink mostly "Fujian tea". Then in Ming Dynasty, Gongdong Feng Huang Shui Xian started to be produced in large amount to satisfy the market. The author cited historical poems and letters in which tea in Guangdong was called "Fujian tea".

Gong Fu drinking at that time would not have been oolong, a lot of the Guangdong cultural sites mention the Chaozhou favoured style of drinking a la Gong Fu to merit as a tourist attraction, but say that it is employed for a wide variety of tea-types whether local or imported.

Oft referred to for Gong Fu drinking is Congou, but that is down the list on my research and purchase agenda - I still don't know if it is Oolong-ish or Black Tea I have seen different sites advertising it as each.

Higher up my priority list is "TeoChew" tea, I have an unopened canister which I brought back from Malaysia in May, and I don't know what that is yet except that is an alternative name for (ChaoZhou) the City whose inhabitants love it!

I would love to acquire any new books in English which give greater detail than the normal tomes on Tea.

I hope you will keep the forum posted when and if this and any other good books get published in English.

[Herb_Master]

JNP seems to suggest - I think -
that the teas are similar and describes the trees as similar.

http://www.tching.com/index.php/2008/11 ... -twn-1111/

This is interesting because I rarely come across Shui Xian in DanCong listings, name or description.
But occasionally see reference to it, as the strain used, in descriptions for Fenghuang [DanCong] Select.

Up until this moment I had always viewed the use of the term 'Select' as a marketing ploy / Sales Gimmick.

Now I wonder - if 'Shui Xian' is the generic term used to denote the lowest grade of Fenghuang oolong, Lang Cai the middle and DanCong the highest - then could "Select" be the official way of denoting that this is a DanCong made from the Shui Xian varietal' ?

Has anyone ever tried teas from "TChing"

Even in Taiwan the Shui Xian trees are larger
http://www.shanshuiteas.com/product.php ... tegoryID=5

[Herb_Master]

Still unable to locate the research article I am looking for for XuanChang

but found another reference to it being called Bird beak Tea

Does a Bird's Beak resemble a Frog's leg ?

http://www.theteagallery.com/Phoenix_Sh ... /op-sx.htm

The Phoenix Shui Xian trees were known as "Bird Beak Tea" before it was officially registered in 1956

Does that mean it was not even recognised as the Shui Xian strain until 1956 ?
Maybe some evidence from 1956 would throw light on the mystery

and possibly proof that they are the parents of all DanCongs ?

This rare, limited production tea comes from the "Neck of the Phoenix", an area that shelters the original Phoenix Mountain tea trees, the parent plants of other Phoenix cultivars.

[Herb_Master]

Seven Cups claim

https://www.sevencups.com/tea_shop/syst ... ctid=16703

This tea originally came from Jian Yang not far from WuYi Mountain and has been transplanted to WuYiShan.

mmm not quite shortly after the start of the 18th Century

yet again I have been directed to seven cups where they
http://www.sevencups.com/tea_shop/produ ... ctid=16581
claim that their
Jin Jiang Mi Lan Xiang (Gold Medal Honey Orchid) Dan Cong Oolong 2007
is

Tea Bush: Mi Lan Xiang descendent from original Feng Huang Shui Xian

aaargh! My head hurts - Jin Jiang and Jian Yang sound a little bit similar BUT if Jin Jiang is in Fenghuang it is not near Wuyi

[ABx]

Just a couple notes for you..

Brewing:
If you're not getting deep, sweet fruity notes then you're probably not brewing it quite right. Yancha needs lots of heat - preferably a good yixing pot preheated with boiling water. You want to fill the vessel at least half way full with dry leaf if there are equal amounts of small bits, completely full if the leaf is big and full with no small bits. You can also try crushing up about a quarter of the leaf. Then steep with boiling water.

Shui Xian isn't terribly complex compared to others, even Lao Cong Shui Xian, but it is a good one that should be nice and smooth with deep, sweet fruity notes (not as deep as Lao Cong, but still deep).

Dancong:
Dancong just means "Single Bush," meaning: "All of the leaves in the can/bag you are holding are all from the same bush."

[Herb_Master]

Peliteas suggest it was the 19th century before it reached Wuyi

http://www.peliteasshop.com/oolong.aspx

The Shui Xian oolong tea varietal was transplanted on Wuyi Mountain in the 19th century and has gained favor as one of the best Wuyi Rock Teas.

I bet Salsero has got some of these for a prop to photo when drinking his Narcissus Tea
http://www.chineseshuixianhua.com/


Here is another Dis-Junct (as far as I am concerned.
http://www.aurateas.com/chinese_tea-Org ... etail.aspx

Shui Xian means "narcissus" in Chinese, but it has nothing related to the flower. The name come from the place first Shui Xian tea tree was found. Shui Xian Oolong is one of the widely cultivated varietal in rock tea, famous for its orchid and fruity fragrance. This is a mild and complex rock tea.

and a slightly more interesting advertising ploy from DoubleKoi
http://doublekoitea.com/index.php?main_ ... ucts_id=19

The tea was spectacular! We were first greeted by a very dark aroma, awakening everyone’s weary senses. The taste was full, almost woodsy, with slight tobacco undertones, like just having enjoyed my favorite pipe! The heady aftertaste and lingering sweetness will not soon be forgotten by my tongue!

I want some of that

[Herb_Master]

Really! does anyone believe this

GoodTea tell us of a Shui Xian
http://www.goodtea.eu/CatalogItem.aspx?id=105&at=2
that is only picked by Young Girls

Virgin peak is a place shrouded in a range of legends, and one of these tells that the tea growing on this rocky peak may be harvested only by young girls, otherwise the leaves shall turn to dust and the gatherer will bring bad luck on his family. This tea is picked by hand and subsequently oxidised to 60-80%.

I'd like to know the oxidation levels of other Shui Xians [and all Oolongs in fact]
Are the more full bodied ones always more oxidised, more roasted or do some varietals exude good body at lower levels of Fire and Oxidation.



I have not looked at the leaves before

After wilting and bruising, the leafs are hand-rolled into a shape said to resemble a frog's leg. Shui Xian's dark green leaves give off an exquisite lacquered fragrance that complements the tea's back-of-the-mouth sweetness.

http://www.chinese-tea.co.uk/Shui-Xian-Wang.htm
expecting to see a Frog's leg, but I can see what the back of the mouth sweetness refers too in some samples I have tried.