Water for Oolongs

[Herb_Master]

The right water for oolong


How should I be heating it ?

I have just read a thread in Teaware which was on Tetsubins - A post near the end led to
http://hojotea.com/categ_e/tetsubin.htm

Which pronounces that testsubins are good for
Green Tea including Japanese Green Tea and Chinese Green Tea
Aged Pu-Erh Raw Tea: >10 Years
Pu-Erh Ripe Tea
Flower Tea
Yellow Tea
White Tea: Both normal clay and purple clay teapot will do.

But not good for
Oolong Tea
Black Tea (Red Tea)
Young Raw Pu-Erh

Reasoning
If it is used for the wrong category of tea such as oolong, the flavor becomes flat.

Tetsubin changes the taste of water because of the activated layer of iron. After casting, Iron kettle is baked in charcoal fire that reduces Fe3+ into Fe2+. The reduced iron Fe2+ actively interacts with the mineral and water and changes the size of clusters. The size of cluster becomes smaller and can easily react with the substances in tea.

Well I certainly don’t know much about Fe3+ or Fe2+
I wonder if I am alright with my Kamjove Stainless Steel, or should I be using a Glass Kettle like every Tea Trader that I visited in Malaysia was using.

My Kamjove

From Dragon Teahouse
http://cgi.ebay.com/Temperature-Adjusta ... m153.l1262

Or should I buy a Glass One
http://cgi.ebay.com/Glass-Kettle-Tea-Ar ... m153.l1262

Do Glass and Stainless steel equally preserve the Fe3+ characteristics of the water when heated.


But the water itself, which should I be using ?

I have noted recently on the boards some warnings about Evian. I use Volvic and Highland Spring and was thinking of posting a request asking for Opinions in the same forum. But having read about the different suitability of water for oolong as opposed to several other tea types, think this is a more appropriate forum.

What qualities in a bottled water should I be looking for when brewing Oolong ?

Volvic according to Wikipedia
Country France - Source Auvergne National Park
Type still - pH 7
Calcium (Ca) 10
Chloride (Cl−) 8
Bicarbonate (HCO3) 65
Magnesium (Mg) 6
Nitrate (NO3) 1
Potassium (K) 6
Silica (SiO2) 30
Sodium (Na) 9
Sulfates (SO) 7
Total Dissolved Solids 109

Highland Spring according to Wikipedia
2 slightly different sources
Country Scotland - Source Blackford, Perth and Kinross
Type Still - pH 7.8 (HS1), 7.7 (HS2)
Calcium (Ca) 32 (HS1), 50.8 (HS2)
Chloride (Cl−) 5.0 (HS1), 5.9 (HS2)
Bicarbonate (HCO3) 133 (HS1), 199 (HS2)
Magnesium (Mg) 8.0 (HS1), 9.5 (HS2)
Nitrate (NO3) <2.0 (HS1), <3.0 (HS2)
Potassium (K) 0.5 (HS1), 0.7 (HS2)
Silica (SiO2) Unknown
Sodium (Na) 4.5 (HS1), 5.5 (HS2)
Sulfates (SO) 7.0 (HS1), 5.8 (HS2)
Total Dissolved Solids 136 (HS1), 190 (HS2)

[olivierco]

I don't buy all the Fe2+, Fe3+ explanations. There isn't any "right" water per se. You have to experiment and find by yourself what the better water is. I often use tap water to drink tea but for some teas I use Mont Roucous water which has very low content of dissolved solids and gives me better results than Volvic.

Type still - pH 6
Calcium (Ca) 1
Chloride (Cl−) 3
Bicarbonate (HCO3) 5
Magnesium (Mg) 0
Nitrate (NO3) 2
Potassium (K) 0
Silica (SiO2) 7
Sodium (Na) 3
Sulfates (SO) 3
Total Dissolved Solids 19

[chrl42]

I don't know anything about Fe2 and Fe3 either, but this got me reading Wang Cong Ren's book again which I think has the greatest opinion about water I've read.

The Chinese people use Wu Zi Fa (five letter way) to evaluate water, Qing(clean), Huo(moving water), Jing(weight), Gan(sweetness), Lie(cold).

Speaking about Evian might apply to 'Jing'. The Chinese considered light water as best to use, modern classification is by 8mg of Calcium and Magnesium ion to distinguish heavy and light. Qing's tea enthusiast emperor Qianlong used a coin(Yin Dou?) to weigh for picking the best spring water of China.

Lu Yu's opinion about best water 'spring water first, river water second, well water third'. River water doesn't satisfy Qing and Jing, well water doesn't for Qing, Huo...why am I doing this? ok..

I am no chemistry major, but I thought it'd be interesting to bring it up. The greatest of all however, would be 'snow water' that is lightest of all and has 'no taste but sweetness'.

[ABx]

You might search the forum, the subject of water has come up quite a bit.

I have to agree with olivierco; I think the best thing to do is just experiment and find what works best for you. I have generally found Brita filtered tap water to be the best, and leaving the water out for 24 hours or so can improve it even more (dechlorinates the water fully). Granted, my local tap water comes from snow melt from the mountains (Ours is apparently among the least treated water in the country, being one of the few that treatment is not mandatory; just the usual round of filtration and chlorination to prevent contamination down the line.) If my local water was much worse I would probably use a more heavy duty pitcher filter, such as the Crystal Quest pitcher (which I might anyway for other reasons).

Of course I also wasn't interested in buying a gallon of spring water for every day of the week. I also use a Zoji, and the fact that it dechlorinates further, boiling slowly and shutting off as soon as it boils, produces better water for me than other kettles.

The only reason I would consider fancy bottled water now is for expensive teas; tea that is expensive enough that I wouldn't want to take any chances. Asking around for recommendations for one specific tea I recently got resulted in contradictory recommendations. So I'm just back to experimenting and using what turns out best

When it comes to tea, there are some subjects (like this one) for which academics don't always hold up to experience. Just experimenting and finding the best for yourself is probably the only way to go. With the differences being subtle I also think that it might be more subject to your expectations and biases than some other things, which could lead to confusion down the line. Also keep in mind that there are a lot of other factors that can affect your tea, even down to the weather, and that different teas are likely to favor different waters. Unfortunately subjects relating to things like brewing tea don't hold up to academic research as much as things like history; it's more art than science. That is unless you're in a position to study under an actual tea master, who can help you to become a better artist Stephane from Tea Masters reported that Tea Parker had said that the best water is the water that your particular tea grew up on. Of course that's a little easier when you're getting your tea locally, if not directly, and can get much more information.

Lastly, I also think that things like water can be even more open to things like bias and expectations, unless you have the resources to perform truly scientific research. So if I were going to try to narrow things down further I would first experiment and then try to figure out why the chosen water came out better for that tea - in other words find the best waters for different teas, and then look into what makes them different.

[Herb_Master]

You might search the forum, the subject of water has come up quite a bit.

Yes I have seen some of the other threads, the only reason I posted here was to see if one Should use a specific water for Oolongs - something like -

"Go for a Ph lower than (or higher than) 'X'

or

"look for water with higher than 'n' Magnesium and lower than 'n2' calcium

or

any advice specific to Oolongs.


However I have now seen on Hojo's site that exactly the same advice is given for Japanese (yixing style) Purple Clay Teapots - Not suitable for Oolong - Ho Hum perhaps I will disregard the advice!

[Oni]

Stay away from kamjove glass kettle, unless you want to drink soft silicone, look at the picture carefully to see sof silicone sealing at the bottom, I sold my KJ8210 because of the stincky soft plastic that makes you water reek of burnt plastic, I payed 200 $ for this lesson I hope you won`t.
I would try this combination from Dragon teahouse http://cgi.ebay.com/Glass-Teakettle-for ... m153.l1262

[Oni]

This kettle can be used on an induction heater, and the water doesn`t come in to contact with nothing but glassw, so the taste of your water will not be altered, I think. I dream about getting an Yixing clay kettle, that I would use on a hot plate, and I would put it on an alcool burner during my teatime.

[ABx]

You might search the forum, the subject of water has come up quite a bit.

Yes I have seen some of the other threads, the only reason I posted here was to see if one Should use a specific water for Oolongs - something like -

"Go for a Ph lower than (or higher than) 'X'

or

"look for water with higher than 'n' Magnesium and lower than 'n2' calcium

or

any advice specific to Oolongs.


However I have now seen on Hojo's site that exactly the same advice is given for Japanese (yixing style) Purple Clay Teapots - Not suitable for Oolong - Ho Hum perhaps I will disregard the advice!

Sorry, I ended up editing my post quite a bit in the time that you responded

That's just the thing - which wulong? And once you know which wulong, how does your specific wulong differ from the others of the exact same type?

[ABx]

You might read up on Stephane's posts on water for tea, he has several. He does note that silver kettles are best, though certainly spendy

[Herb_Master]

You might read up on Stephane's posts on water for tea, he has several. He does note that silver kettles are best, though certainly spendy

You got me there, I must re read them

I saw the bit about Silver kettles and consequently consigned my memory of the articles to the "finished reading these" pile, because I don't expect to be buying Silver Kettles

But I must go back to check the other info!

[ABx]

Like I say, don't take any of these things as true. What's best for one person in one area may turn out awful for you. I really don't think that you can approach this as academically from the west. You're really best just doing this one experimentally; then if you want to do more then you can get some test kits, read up on the source (your local water bureau is required to publish data on the water you get, for a start), and find out what's different about the water you find to be best.

The difference between a silver kettle and another might also be subtle enough that it doesn't really matter. I would want to try it for myself before putting any stock in it or buying one (unless there was one I thought was worth it for other reasons). You might also email Stephane about it.

[tenuki]

I prefer a stovetop eathenware kettle and Fiji bottled water for most high end taiwanese oolongs. For daily drinking I use good ol seattle tap water, filtered via a britta and boiled with bamboo charcoal, but we have uncommonly good tap water here.

I've done extensive water blind testing and am reliably able to tell the difference between all these choices you mention for kettle except for silver, no silver kettle yet. Glass and ceramic/earthenware are pretty much identically neutral taste/scent wise and I prefer the heat retention characteristics of earthenware.

Also, after testing probably 15 different high end bottled waters (including volvic, which I definately didnt' like) I ended up at Fiji, so I would at least give it a try. I found waters with TDS under 120 to be less full and sweet tasting, and certain solids like silica seem to be desireable, so I wouldn't just try to go for the lowest TDS.

[Herb_Master]

I prefer a stovetop eathenware kettle and Fiji bottled water for most high end taiwanese oolongs. For daily drinking I use good ol seattle tap water, filtered via a britta and boiled with bamboo charcoal, but we have uncommonly good tap water here.

I've done extensive water blind testing and am reliably able to tell the difference between all these choices you mention for kettle except for silver, no silver kettle yet. Glass and ceramic/earthenware are pretty much identically neutral taste/scent wise and I prefer the heat retention characteristics of earthenware.

Also, after testing probably 15 different high end bottled waters (including volvic, which I definately didnt' like) I ended up at Fiji, so I would at least give it a try. I found waters with TDS under 120 to be less full and sweet tasting, and certain solids like silica seem to be desireable, so I wouldn't just try to go for the lowest TDS.

Thanks Tenuki, this the kind of reply I was hoping for.

I too had presumed a decent TD of favourable solids would assist the leaf. After all when those who have the ear of Tea Masters tell us that the only perfect water is the local water from where the bush grew it will mean that the water has a profile of local solids.

As we are never going to be able to assemble a collection of waters that would each individually suit our Anxi, Wuyi, min Bei Fou Shou, Fenghuang, North, Cenral and Southern Taiwans it is good to know which individual solids are deemed generally favourable to Oolongs. I shall add Silica to the "Plus" list.

It would be interesting to know what other solids posters generally regard as favourable.

My Kamjove is so convenient, and I am Never going to be interested in Silver. But for more leisurely moments I may consider a stove top earthenware, though what really attracts me for the less regular sessions is a Chao Zhou stove.

I must look in to Bamboo charcoal, and a stove or earthenware kettle when my Bank Account recovers from all my Christmas ordering excesses.

[tenuki]

I'm assuming the Joyce Chen 2 qt kettle can be had generally in the UK for the equivalent of 35 USD, and it is pretty much an earthenware stovetop kettle. It used to be my daily kettle, but I splurged and bought a 1 liter Lins Studio beauty that has taken over.

[tenuki]

the only perfect water is the local water from where the bush grew it will mean that the water has a profile of local solids.

Ya, when I was researching this stuff (geological maps, soil composition info, etc) it struck me that I had already selected via taste alone the bottled water most similar to the volcanic backbone of taiwan where the gaoshans are grown (Fiji). Funny how that works. I hope to make a trip to taiwan someday and drink from the local water supply at Li Shan for a benchmark.