Yixing Prices and Online Places

[tingjunkie]

Thanks again! That is super helpful. The Imperial Tea website didn't say the clay types where I could see, but I surmised that they are Zinni (darker one) and Hongni (reddish one). Am I on point there?

I am thinking of the two from Imperial, and then the "Duanni" Dragon Kiln from HS, mostly because I think it is freakin' gorgeous. Anymore feedback on that particular piece?

I'm pretty excited to enter into my official "beginner" phase with these pots.

You are correct, the red one from ITC is hong ni, and the brown one is zi ni. I have no experience with the duan ni pot from YS, but the basic deal is that it's over fired on purpose to achieve that look. All Yixing clay types have a range of kiln firing temps which will produce pots with a certain level of porosity. Porosity is good, because it allows the clay to "breathe" and interact with the tea at nucleation sites. If a pot is fired too low, there will always be a lingering clay smell and taste, combined with a harshness of the tea on the throat. A pot being over fired isn't nearly as bad, it just means the clay has almost become vitrified (fused into a glss-like substance) and the pot will probably function more like using a gaiwan- it theoretically will not change the flavors or mouthfeel of the tea too much.

Like Luke Skywalker learning about the Force, you are taking your first step into a larger world. Depending on how passionate you become, Yixing pots can pull you pretty far down the rabbit hole. There is no way to avoid buying "tuition pots" at first. These are pots that end up being either plain old crappy, or ones we quickly outgrow and have no more use for. The best advice I was given when I was starting out, was to 1) try to get my hands on, use, and inspect as many pots as possible from stores and friends, and 2) save my money, and buy good pots from the reputable dealers. If you don't have access to stores or knowledgeable friends, you are more limited to suggestion #2. That's not to say you can't learn a lot from a low end pot, but you may outgrow it pretty quickly. It may be a stepping stone you need to take in order to move forward in your experience level.

Ultimately, it's all up to you, and it's your taste buds and wallet that will decide which pots are right for you. I wish you luck! Out of curiosity, what kinds of tea do you drink, and from which vendors?

[needaTEAcher]

That makes a lot of sense. I am going to skip then on the over-fired "Duan Ni" since the whole point of this exercise is to buy myself some "tuition" pots. I wish I could get my hands on a Duan Ni though or Lu Ni though. I don't mind spending the big bucks next year, but I can't do it now, when I know nothing!

As per my standards teas, please don't judge me too harshly. I have been drinking mostly old tea these days. I came to Korea 14 months ago, not knowing what I'd find, so I gave away 90% of my tea stash (I took a bunch of "expired" tea off a friend's hands for her-like 20 or 30 lbs). I brought a bunch of Assam TGFOP and East Frisian Blend from http://www.uptontea.com, some Earl Grey from SpecialTeas (now Teavanna, which makes me sad), some Kusmi black and green, a Taiwanese high-altitude oolong brought back from Taiwan, all in Chinese, so I know nothing except the altitude) and some tasty Harney and Sons black jasmine.

Since here I sometimes have a nice little jasmine someone gave me from Shainghai, though I don't know anything about it. I have mostly been drinking all kinds of puerh from local vendors, as well as some super cheap stuff I picked up in Vietnam. Cooked and cheap, though I want to find both older and younger raw puerhs to test out my new pots, when I get them. I like to drink nicer ones with my (generous) friend that owns a shop here, and he brews in different pots for me; but it is always a different tea, so it's not great for telling the distinctions.

Long story short (too late!): old but still tasty Assam or Earl Grey some mornings (straight up ceramic teapot), or a variety of low quality, cooked puerh (Zin Ni infusion mug), and high altitude Taiwanese oolong (another ceramic pot) in the afternoon. I miss tigwanyin, but I can't seem to find anything here where I can see and smell it first, which is a must.

After I finish experimenting, I will season 1 teapot to the oolong I have (and will replace somehow), and 1 to the lower end puerhs I have. If I e, one nd up with 3, then 1 will be saved for the older, raw puerhs.

Last question for now (sorry and thanks again), what about these:

https://www.imperialtea.com/Small-Yi-Xi ... P339.htmlp
I can't imagine why so cheap, other than they have too many, but they seem like good tuition pots, even if I'm not wild about them.

And if I save on the budget, then perhaps also the
https://www.imperialtea.com/Teahouse-Yi ... P400.htmlp
Would the blue one here be Lu Ni? Thoughts?

Thanks for leading me back to ITC. I fell in love with them when I lived there. The founder has a great movie on puerh that started my whole obsession 4 years ago!

[bryan_drinks_tea]

Since YS came up a little while ago - I have a question. Who here has tried out the Jian Shui Pots? I'm not making any judgement on them other than the fact that I suspect the polished surfaces are little more than a gimmick.

[tingjunkie]

The cheap ones (from what I can tell from the very low res pic) look way too glossy. If you're lucky, they are made of Taiwanese clay. Otherwise, who knows what they are made from. I don't remember seeing those Teahouse pots when I was there, but they look a bit more on the level. Avoid the blue one though. It has cobalt powder added to immitate real Muo Lu Ni.

Before sweating the teapots too much, we gotta get you drinking some really good tea! You honestly can't evaluate Yixing pots too well, without getting to know some great tea in a gaiwan first. For Chinese and Taiwanese oolongs and puerh, my recommendations include The Mandarin's Tearoom, the Tea Gallery, Jing Tea Shop, Floating Leaves, Hou De, Tea Masters, The Essence of Tea, and Bana Tea Co. For good Korean Tea (well, you might know more than I do) I'd recommend Hancha Tea. I'm sure other can chime in with more recommendations for tea vendors.

[Herb_Master]

Since YS came up a little while ago - I have a question. Who here has tried out the Jian Shui Pots? I'm not making any judgement on them other than the fact that I suspect the polished surfaces are little more than a gimmick.

I HAVE bought one, it took 8 weeks to arrive, and arrived last week. I will try and put something up about it soon.
I mainly drink Oolong, but am using this for Sheng and would not feel qualified to talk about it's brewing qualities, but it is well made and delightful and I am glad to have added it to my collection.

YS pots are good regardless of what others have to say. ..... .... .

Whether or not they are good for making tea, most of the claims about the YS pots are flat out bogus. For example... Da Hong Pao clay is extremely rare and simply does not sell for $65-$90 a pot. You'd be lucky to find a real DHP pot for less than $500. The only one I've ever seen offered was sold from Hou De for $1,800. Same goes for the rarity of real Lu Ni from Ben Shan mountain. You won't find it in mass produced pots selling for $42. ....... ....... .

I have to agree with much of TJ's sentiments.

I waited and waited for Chen and others to come up with some decent offerings in a smaller size at a TeaChat friendly price. In the end I purchased some YS pots to try and sample some of the clays I had not encountered. I was not disappointed with any of them, for at the price point my expectations were not overly high. My expectations were not exceeded. They are effective to use, produce reasonably good results but fail to give me the higher level of satisfaction that I get from Chen's pots or any of the other high end pots that I have bought.

What are realistic price ranges on the low end for decent, genuine Duanni Luni, Heini, and Zini clay? I just got my first Zini mug/infuser, and I love it, but I want a real teapot.

Everything I read seems to suggest $150 or more, and everything I can find locally (Korea) is $200 or more for nice pots. I have found some great websites, often recommended through this board, for less than $50. I am wary. Should I be wary?

If after some of the good advice given here, you are thinking of adjusting your exploration path through yixing clays until you know more.

Then I can highly recommend as a cheap entry level beginner pot or pots to try Zen8Tea. They do not make any claims about their pots, and sell them cheaply - however Natalie provides exceptional service.

4 or 5 years ago, I bought some teapots from them, before I knew what i was doing. 1 or 2 of them were learning fees -
smaller versions of pots like this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chinese-Tea-Tea ... 588701cbe9
Stay away from ornate offerings

Look for simple clean cut pots, for others have proved to get regular use as some of my goto pots for Dan Cong, and at times outperform my expensive Chao Zhou pots.
I cannot see anything quite like my favourites - but they tend to be similar to
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chinese-ZISHA-T ... 3cb80bbfe1

Strike up a correspondence and Natalie will provide you with reliable information about any pots that you are interested in.
They are not hand made, not half handmade, but from moulds and may get you an even cheaper intro into some different commercial quality clays.

Be sure to ask her whether the walls are thin, medium or thick. My best performers were medium walled, the thick walled one was just a little too chunky, and not quite as good a brewer.

I bought a 30ml pot from her called Tea Fun, it had the tiniest of chips in the rim, she asked for a photo, apologised profusely and sent me a more expensive replacement free of charge.

[tingjunkie]

I can vouch for at least one pot at Zen8Tea, and for their great customer service. If you are looking for a small pot for heavily roasted oolongs, or for conserving expensive age puerh, this one is a hell of a performer for the price (though it's closer to 60ml+ in size). As for their other pots, looks like a hit or miss minefield.

[brandon]

I saw one of the larger hong ni pots from zen8tea recently and it very low fired. The quality of the clay certainly didn't impress.

[bagua7]

Ok bagua7... You're the guy who posted an article about how to tell fake Yixing pots...

This is a personal attack, plain and simple.

When I posted the article about how to identify an authentic yixing teapot I already knew that the pot was fake and posted about it in order to add new information to the existing thread and therefore help other users in the future. The vendor put that information in the website right away after I sent him an e-mail complaining about being sold fake pots and requesting an immediate refund. I guess he realised about his mistake and karmic consequences of his action.

I waited and waited for Chen and others to come up with some decent offerings in a smaller size at a TeaChat friendly price. In the end I purchased some YS pots to try and sample some of the clays I had not encountered. I was not disappointed with any of them, for at the price point my expectations were not overly high. My expectations were not exceeded. They are effective to use, produce reasonably good results but fail to give me the higher level of satisfaction that I get from Chen's pots or any of the other high end pots that I have bought.

Often, you get what you pay for but what if in this particular case your level of satisfaction was perceived as a consequence of value being assigned mainly when a higher cost was involved. Could your psyche or emotional experience being affected by it and hence provide you with a better tea tasting experience? I am not saying that this is always the case but it may well be when we are attached to a particular teapot that was expensive (or particularly fancy to us) thereby making us believe it brewed a better tea.

Then I can highly recommend as a cheap entry level beginner pot or pots to try Zen8Tea. They do not make any claims about their pots, and sell them cheaply - however Natalie provides exceptional service.

Herb-Master, unfortunately my experience with zen8tea pots is unpleasant. I have purchased three pots from them and all had chemicals added to the clay (and were disposed of):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yixing-ZISHA-Zh ... 588df99cd5
(Yixing clay according to them, I was expecting not zhuni for that price or that look but at least a decent zisha mix)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chinese-Teapot- ... 588c9af887 (Taiwanese clay according to them. Purchased when I first started my Yixing journey, at the start of 2009)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chinese-Yixing- ... 588e4dd636
(As before)

But their small zi ni (50mL) pots are good:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yixing-ZISHA-Te ... 588e4aaef1


About purchasing Taiwanese teapots, this is an e-mail I received from Stéphane of Teamasters when I enquired about this subject:

Q: Hi Stéphane,

I was wondering if you sell any Taiwanese clay teapots.

A: No

Q: Is it because the quality of the clay not being good? I am curious.

A: That's often the reason, yes. Also, some like to use a kind of polish on the teapots to make them shine. This isn't good for the tea.

Stephane

[David R.]

Some taiwanese pots are really great and efficient. But they may not be easy to find. I think that people are especially looking for yixing teapots because of their reputation, but I am also wondering why a modern yixing clay would be better than another clay from Taiwan, Japan or anywhere else.

[tingjunkie]

This is a personal attack, plain and simple.

No, a personal attack would include name calling, put downs, or other derogatory terms directed at you. I merely added links to your own posts as a rebuttal of you calling my (albeit mediocre) knowledge of Yixing pots into question. I attacked your views and credentials, not you.

But since this is a tea forum, and everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, I apologize for making you feel demoralized.

[Chip]

O_O

O_o

o_O

O_O

[needaTEAcher]

Normally, I'm not so fond of the drama, but I must let my newly discovered enthusiasm show here and note that teapot drama is pretty freakin great.

Turns out ITC won't ship to Korea, so that one is out. I am going chat up the nice lady from the Zen8Tea. I like these maybe:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chinese-ZISHA-T ... 500wt_1202
for Zi Ni

and one of these
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chinese-ZISHA-T ... 500wt_1202
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yixing-ZISHA-Ko ... 586wt_1185
for Hong Ni (they had one exactly like the Zu Ni earlier, but I think it was sold)

I'm going hunting through Seoul this weekend to see and maybe taste some new clay.

Some taiwanese pots are really great and efficient. But they may not be easy to find. I think that people are especially looking for yixing teapots because of their reputation, but I am also wondering why a modern yixing clay would be better than another clay from Taiwan, Japan or anywhere else.

I am horribly under-experienced to respond to this, but I will try in hope that if I misrepresent someone will swoop in and correct me. My understanding is that there is something about the specific mixes of minerals in the clay form Yixing that works particularly well with oolong and puerh. Other pots are great and may even "season" the tea well, but this particular clay is known for the best seasoning. Something like that?

my recommendations include The Mandarin's Tearoom, the Tea Gallery, Jing Tea Shop, Floating Leaves, Hou De, Tea Masters, The Essence of Tea, and Bana Tea Co..

I'll look into them, and see who sends to Korea. I love Bana, and used them when I was State-side. My earlier post perhaps represents me as a bit less experienced with puerh than I am. When I wasn't as focused on my budget, I drank and bought anything I could get my hands on, especially from my friends who were more tapped in than me in the tea community (and the SF China Town). I was always looking for older raw tea. I just drink cheap stuff here because I am saving money for the trip next year (getting married and then we are taking a 1.5 year honeymoon!). I will buy a few somethings nicer to test out the new pots.

My current level of knowledge is pretty limited though. I know I like raw more than cooked, and I tend to like the earthier flavors, like sipping on good, clean dirt. Especially those that start out smokey or earthy and then switch to sweeter notes threw subsequent brews. Any recommendations from above based on that?

I love the puerh buzz.

[brandon]

Dear Mr Teacher,
The pots you are looking at (150ml) are too large for one person, and even a lot for two. It might not sound like much, but 80-100ml sizes would make a dramatic difference in your ability to finish a tea in one sitting, and use less tea per session - especially if you already have a taste for aged, raw puer.

http://www.houdeasianart.com/index.php? ... 05c8b3e3a1

That said, this is in my opinion one of the best values for aged puer on the Internet market right now - a tough market indeed. If this pot was 80ml, it would have been snatched up in seconds.

Buying Yixing teapots in the $20 range online is bound for massive disappointment. Why buy good tea only to put it in a sub-par teapot?

If we were talking about Oolong instead of aged puer, I would say spend your $20 on a nice gaiwan and experience bliss. Even with pu, a good gaiwan beats a crappy teapot every time.

[David R.]

I was under the impression that all the clay that made Yixing famous is now pretty much gone, that's why old Yixing are so precious to amateurs. I am not saying that modern Yixing clay is bad, but I don't know if it is better that other clays such as the ones used to make good taiwanese or japanese teapots.

[needaTEAcher]

I was under the impression that all the clay that made Yixing famous is now pretty much gone, that's why old Yixing are so precious to amateurs. I am not saying that modern Yixing clay is bad, but I don't know if it is better that other clays such as the ones used to make good taiwanese or japanese teapots.

I gots nothin here. One of the old timers tag in!

Dear Mr Teacher,
The pots you are looking at (150ml) are too large for one person, and even a lot for two. It might not sound like much, but 80-100ml sizes would make a dramatic difference in your ability to finish a tea in one sitting, and use less tea per session - especially if you already have a taste for aged, raw puer.

http://www.houdeasianart.com/index.php? ... 05c8b3e3a1
...
Buying Yixing teapots in the $20 range online is bound for massive disappointment. Why buy good tea only to put it in a sub-par teapot?

That's helpful too. I like this pot, but it is out of my price range. Remember, these are just trainer pots, not something for the grandkids (I want to see how different clays interact with the tea). I can't afford to spend more than $100 on the pair. I really like the ITC pots, but they won't ship to me!!!