Yixing Clay: Sourcing Raw Materials


Discussion on virtually any teaware related item.

Re: Yixing Clay: Sourcing Raw Materials

Postby JBaymore » Apr 5th, '13, 10:58

futurebird wrote:...and making rocks in to clay sounds non-trivial.


It takes geologic time. Clay weathers from the parent rock granite. Not a "man-made" option.

best,

.............john
User avatar
JBaymore
 
Posts: 1675
Joined: Sep 15th, '
Location: Wilton, New Hampshire USA

Re: Yixing Clay: Sourcing Raw Materials

Postby JBaymore » Apr 5th, '13, 11:07

Not the real Zisha... but maybe a starting point for some experimentation.

http://www.chineseclayart.com/ChineseCl ... erials.asp

Why don't you simply contact a ceramic engineering firm in Taiwan and put them on the project?

best,

............john
User avatar
JBaymore
 
Posts: 1675
Joined: Sep 15th, '
Location: Wilton, New Hampshire USA

Re: Yixing Clay: Sourcing Raw Materials

Postby futurebird » Apr 5th, '13, 11:13

JBaymore wrote:
futurebird wrote:...and making rocks in to clay sounds non-trivial.


It takes geologic time. Clay weathers from the parent rock granite. Not a "man-made" option.


I was talking about the clay "rocks."

I've made clay from scratch in a few places in the USA. Every clay is very unique. I was under the impression, though, that yixing clay was made in a radically different way -- but the process shown in the photos is not different at all, it's just on an industrial scale.

I guess I shouldn't have used the term "rocks" -- it's just that's what raw yixing is called... "rocks" --It's really just hard-ish dry natural clay. (or so it seems)
futurebird
 
Posts: 593
Joined: Feb 12th, '
Location: South Bronx, NYC

Re: Yixing Clay: Sourcing Raw Materials

Postby futurebird » Apr 5th, '13, 11:16

JBaymore wrote:Not the real Zisha... but maybe a starting point for some experimentation.

http://www.chineseclayart.com/ChineseCl ... erials.asp

Why don't you simply contact a ceramic engineering firm in Taiwan and put them on the project?

best,

............john


I though the goal here was to find a natural clay with good properties for tea pots... not replicate it in a lab.

People have already tried to do the later, the results are OK in some cases, but lack the depth and beauty of natural products.
futurebird
 
Posts: 593
Joined: Feb 12th, '
Location: South Bronx, NYC

Re: Yixing Clay: Sourcing Raw Materials

Postby futurebird » Apr 5th, '13, 12:03

Though other than the price, what indication is there that the clay these folks have isn't real? I guess the photos are a bit strange...

I called them on the phone they were very nice. I wish we had a "clay center" like this one in NYC.

They said the clay is natural, foodsafe and from Yixing.

I think I'll get some and share the results. Maybe I can make a teaboat.
futurebird
 
Posts: 593
Joined: Feb 12th, '
Location: South Bronx, NYC

Re: Yixing Clay: Sourcing Raw Materials

Postby wyardley » Apr 5th, '13, 12:13

Make sure you at least get the "Solid Wood Mallet" and a circle cutter from them. Working with the material is somewhat difficult.

I have worked with the Chinese Clay Art material at a seminar they co-sponsored here. I don't think it's high quality zisha, and the colored ones do not look very natural, but the brown one should be natural, and should be good enough for getting a sense of what the material is like to work with.
User avatar
wyardley
 
Posts: 1927
Joined: Jan 11th, '
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Yixing Clay: Sourcing Raw Materials

Postby tingjunkie » Apr 5th, '13, 13:03

bagua7 wrote:Remove Yixing pottery from Taoist principles and you'll soon find out how good your Tai Chi Chuan or Bagua Quan is. An empty art with no spirit.


A view radically different from mine. I know people who are full of spirit. They could get up, eat McDonalds, drink tea from mass produced cheap ceramic, and still tap into the spiritual mainline without any problems or hiccups.

If an energy practice is so fragile and fleeting that it can get knocked off the tracks by using a mass produced teapot, then what is it worth? If someone needs a big long checklist and for everything to be just so before they can tap into some Qi, then I'd suggest they're doing something wrong.

You don't think there are people who can find spirit and recharge themselves on a dirty, nasty, underground subway platform? It's not the teaware, it's the person and their outlook.
User avatar
tingjunkie
 
Posts: 1430
Joined: Jul 8th, '0
Location: NYC

Re: Yixing Clay: Sourcing Raw Materials

Postby Evan Draper » Apr 5th, '13, 13:27

tingjunkie wrote:It's not the teaware, it's the person and their outlook.

+8
User avatar
Evan Draper
 
Posts: 365
Joined: Jan 23rd, '
Location: Philadelphia

Re: Yixing Clay: Sourcing Raw Materials

Postby JBaymore » Apr 5th, '13, 14:07

futurebird wrote:I though the goal here was to find a natural clay with good properties for tea pots... not replicate it in a lab.

People have already tried to do the later, the results are OK in some cases, but lack the depth and beauty of natural products.


Actually that is NOT the goal of the original poster (luca):

luca wrote:For my purposes, rather than tea, it's a product design venture for which the same properties that make Yixing purple clay ideal in the tea realm give it value in my intended application: the joint, often opposed properties of stoneware strength and earthenware porosity. In the world of ceramics, we do not find these two characteristics in the same natural clay body quite so effectively joined elsewhere, to my knowledge. (I am not a professional ceramacist, but have picked up a good deal of info in that area over the past few years of research).


His/her search has nothing to do with teapots.

best,

..........john
User avatar
JBaymore
 
Posts: 1675
Joined: Sep 15th, '
Location: Wilton, New Hampshire USA

Re: Yixing Clay: Sourcing Raw Materials

Postby JBaymore » Apr 5th, '13, 14:10

futurebird wrote:I called them on the phone they were very nice. I wish we had a "clay center" like this one in NYC.

They said the clay is natural, foodsafe and from Yixing.


They are very nice folks.

You'll find me included in the owner's ( Guangzhen Zhou) new Chinese language book. :wink:


best,

.............john
User avatar
JBaymore
 
Posts: 1675
Joined: Sep 15th, '
Location: Wilton, New Hampshire USA

Re: Yixing Clay: Sourcing Raw Materials

Postby achyle » Apr 6th, '13, 03:43

here some Benshan for you guys to play with:
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a23 ... 7873323919
User avatar
achyle
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Sep 11th, '

Re: Yixing Clay: Sourcing Raw Materials

Postby luca » Apr 8th, '13, 14:10

I do appreciate all the responses greatly. The criteria for quality Yixing zisha which is used in teaware will likely differ somewhat from my own needs. The sandier and less refined variant is certainly fine, perhaps even preferable. As long as it has the characteristic combination of porosity and high strength, it will be of interest. Perhaps this less refined variant will cost less or be easier to obtain...

@ Futurebird and John, and anyone else who has worked with the clay, whether obtained from Chinese Clay Art or elsewhere, it's my understanding that it can be somewhat difficult – how exactly does it handle when working with it in the forms anyone here has had it? Can objects be formed via press techniques or only hand thrown? And when transformed into a slip, does this alter either the porosity or strength of the finished product?

For product prototyping in the past with other clays, including porcelain, I've used both hand thrown as well as slip casting techniques. The final product requires rather precise tolerances, quite similar to a nice fit of between lid and pot.

@ achyle, how is the Benshan from http://item.taobao.com ? For tea aficionados, with the benshan or benshanlu (sp?), which I understand to basically be another colour of yixing clay, do teapots from this material perform just like zisha? I am not certain of its material properties in comparison to zisha, but if the enthusiasts here can clarify whether the benshan is as sought after as the zisha for making excellent teas, then this likely indicates it has the porosity, i.e. breathability, of zisha.

Many thanks in advance!
luca
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mar 16th, '

Re: Yixing Clay: Sourcing Raw Materials

Postby wyardley » Apr 9th, '13, 22:13

luca wrote:@ Futurebird and John, and anyone else who has worked with the clay, whether obtained from Chinese Clay Art or elsewhere, it's my understanding that it can be somewhat difficult – how exactly does it handle when working with it in the forms anyone here has had it? Can objects be formed via press techniques or only hand thrown?

It can't be wheel thrown (or at least, not without additives). Generally, slab construction is used, but slipcasting is also possible.
User avatar
wyardley
 
Posts: 1927
Joined: Jan 11th, '
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Yixing Clay: Sourcing Raw Materials

Postby futurebird » Apr 10th, '13, 00:22

my clay came today!

damn it is hard...I thought I knew hard clay (think fimo when it's cold) this is much much harder.

I'll repoort about how my attempts to make na tea-boat go...
futurebird
 
Posts: 593
Joined: Feb 12th, '
Location: South Bronx, NYC

Re: Yixing Clay: Sourcing Raw Materials

Postby luca » Apr 10th, '13, 13:41

futurebird – I'll be very curious indeed to know how your experience with the newly arrived clay goes. Did you order one of their more natural appearing colours, i.e. the brown, or possibly the 'orange' (which may be the benshan, the sandy-coloured Yixing)?
luca
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mar 16th, '

PreviousNext

Instant Messenger

Permissions
You cannot post new topics
You cannot reply to topics
You cannot edit your posts
You cannot delete your posts
You cannot post attachments
Navigation