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Apr 30th, '14, 14:10
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Re: Official what Oolong are You Drinking Right Now?

by chrl42 » Apr 30th, '14, 14:10

MarshalN wrote:
Tead Off wrote:I am not questioning the authenticity, just trying to explain that it is difficult for people to judge through small photos because you feel that Marshaln is wrong about your pot. I think within your group, if it were not Qing, someone would have spoken up already.

Shuiping was stamped on many Qing style pots from later periods and so were Mengchen inscriptions on the bottom. We cannot judge the age of pots from these, but from the clay and the look.
Tead Off, from my experience talking with hundreds of tea/teaware collector in Greater China, NOBODY would tell you that your pot is fake in your face in China or Taiwan. Nobody, until you try to sell it to them.

There's an unwritten rule that you don't tell someone they have a fake. You just don't. People get angry, as you're seeing right here.

So, take it or leave it, it's my opinion and I'm standing by it - I can go to Taiwan tomorrow and pick out 50 pots that look like the one pictured. This looks more like a Taiwanese remake from the 80s rather than an actual late Qing pot.

Yes, maybe if the higher resolution picture changes the way it looks dramatically, I'll reconsider. Judging from what it looks like right now, chances of it being genuine is pretty low.
Is that the guy who said golf filters are used during the ROC?

:lol:

Seriously, you don't know what you talk about. Stop before you become hilarious.

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Apr 30th, '14, 14:18
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Re: Official what Oolong are You Drinking Right Now?

by MarshalN » Apr 30th, '14, 14:18

chrl42 wrote:
MarshalN wrote:
Tead Off wrote:I am not questioning the authenticity, just trying to explain that it is difficult for people to judge through small photos because you feel that Marshaln is wrong about your pot. I think within your group, if it were not Qing, someone would have spoken up already.

Shuiping was stamped on many Qing style pots from later periods and so were Mengchen inscriptions on the bottom. We cannot judge the age of pots from these, but from the clay and the look.
Tead Off, from my experience talking with hundreds of tea/teaware collector in Greater China, NOBODY would tell you that your pot is fake in your face in China or Taiwan. Nobody, until you try to sell it to them.

There's an unwritten rule that you don't tell someone they have a fake. You just don't. People get angry, as you're seeing right here.

So, take it or leave it, it's my opinion and I'm standing by it - I can go to Taiwan tomorrow and pick out 50 pots that look like the one pictured. This looks more like a Taiwanese remake from the 80s rather than an actual late Qing pot.

Yes, maybe if the higher resolution picture changes the way it looks dramatically, I'll reconsider. Judging from what it looks like right now, chances of it being genuine is pretty low.
Is that the guy who said golf filters are used during the ROC?

:lol:

Seriously, you don't know what you talk about. Stop before you become hilarious.
Enjoy the Beijing teapot scene.

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Apr 30th, '14, 14:20
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Re: Official what Oolong are You Drinking Right Now?

by chrl42 » Apr 30th, '14, 14:20

MarshalN wrote:
chrl42 wrote:
MarshalN wrote:
Tead Off wrote:I am not questioning the authenticity, just trying to explain that it is difficult for people to judge through small photos because you feel that Marshaln is wrong about your pot. I think within your group, if it were not Qing, someone would have spoken up already.

Shuiping was stamped on many Qing style pots from later periods and so were Mengchen inscriptions on the bottom. We cannot judge the age of pots from these, but from the clay and the look.
Tead Off, from my experience talking with hundreds of tea/teaware collector in Greater China, NOBODY would tell you that your pot is fake in your face in China or Taiwan. Nobody, until you try to sell it to them.

There's an unwritten rule that you don't tell someone they have a fake. You just don't. People get angry, as you're seeing right here.

So, take it or leave it, it's my opinion and I'm standing by it - I can go to Taiwan tomorrow and pick out 50 pots that look like the one pictured. This looks more like a Taiwanese remake from the 80s rather than an actual late Qing pot.

Yes, maybe if the higher resolution picture changes the way it looks dramatically, I'll reconsider. Judging from what it looks like right now, chances of it being genuine is pretty low.
Is that the guy who said golf filters are used during the ROC?

:lol:

Seriously, you don't know what you talk about. Stop before you become hilarious.
Enjoy the Beijing teapot scene.
Experienced collector.

What's the seal? how to read it?

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Apr 30th, '14, 14:29
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Re: Official what Oolong are You Drinking Right Now?

by MarshalN » Apr 30th, '14, 14:29

chrl42 wrote:
MarshalN wrote:
chrl42 wrote:
MarshalN wrote:
Tead Off wrote:I am not questioning the authenticity, just trying to explain that it is difficult for people to judge through small photos because you feel that Marshaln is wrong about your pot. I think within your group, if it were not Qing, someone would have spoken up already.

Shuiping was stamped on many Qing style pots from later periods and so were Mengchen inscriptions on the bottom. We cannot judge the age of pots from these, but from the clay and the look.
Tead Off, from my experience talking with hundreds of tea/teaware collector in Greater China, NOBODY would tell you that your pot is fake in your face in China or Taiwan. Nobody, until you try to sell it to them.

There's an unwritten rule that you don't tell someone they have a fake. You just don't. People get angry, as you're seeing right here.

So, take it or leave it, it's my opinion and I'm standing by it - I can go to Taiwan tomorrow and pick out 50 pots that look like the one pictured. This looks more like a Taiwanese remake from the 80s rather than an actual late Qing pot.

Yes, maybe if the higher resolution picture changes the way it looks dramatically, I'll reconsider. Judging from what it looks like right now, chances of it being genuine is pretty low.
Is that the guy who said golf filters are used during the ROC?

:lol:

Seriously, you don't know what you talk about. Stop before you become hilarious.
Enjoy the Beijing teapot scene.
Experienced collector.

What's the seal? how to read it?
Not 100% on the left since it's a bit blurry, but looks to be 孟臣惠記. Since when do seals tell you the age of the pot? It's the most easily faked thing.

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Apr 30th, '14, 14:31
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Re: Official what Oolong are You Drinking Right Now?

by chrl42 » Apr 30th, '14, 14:31

MarshalN wrote:
chrl42 wrote:
MarshalN wrote:
chrl42 wrote:
MarshalN wrote:
Tead Off wrote:I am not questioning the authenticity, just trying to explain that it is difficult for people to judge through small photos because you feel that Marshaln is wrong about your pot. I think within your group, if it were not Qing, someone would have spoken up already.

Shuiping was stamped on many Qing style pots from later periods and so were Mengchen inscriptions on the bottom. We cannot judge the age of pots from these, but from the clay and the look.
Tead Off, from my experience talking with hundreds of tea/teaware collector in Greater China, NOBODY would tell you that your pot is fake in your face in China or Taiwan. Nobody, until you try to sell it to them.

There's an unwritten rule that you don't tell someone they have a fake. You just don't. People get angry, as you're seeing right here.

So, take it or leave it, it's my opinion and I'm standing by it - I can go to Taiwan tomorrow and pick out 50 pots that look like the one pictured. This looks more like a Taiwanese remake from the 80s rather than an actual late Qing pot.

Yes, maybe if the higher resolution picture changes the way it looks dramatically, I'll reconsider. Judging from what it looks like right now, chances of it being genuine is pretty low.
Is that the guy who said golf filters are used during the ROC?

:lol:

Seriously, you don't know what you talk about. Stop before you become hilarious.
Enjoy the Beijing teapot scene.
Experienced collector.

What's the seal? how to read it?
Not 100% on the left since it's a bit blurry, but looks to be 孟臣惠記. Since when do seals tell you the age of the pot? It's the most easily faked thing.
nice. now evidence, please.

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Re: Official what Oolong are You Drinking Right Now?

by MarshalN » Apr 30th, '14, 14:43

chrl42 wrote:
MarshalN wrote:
chrl42 wrote:
MarshalN wrote:
chrl42 wrote:
MarshalN wrote:
Tead Off wrote:I am not questioning the authenticity, just trying to explain that it is difficult for people to judge through small photos because you feel that Marshaln is wrong about your pot. I think within your group, if it were not Qing, someone would have spoken up already.

Shuiping was stamped on many Qing style pots from later periods and so were Mengchen inscriptions on the bottom. We cannot judge the age of pots from these, but from the clay and the look.
Tead Off, from my experience talking with hundreds of tea/teaware collector in Greater China, NOBODY would tell you that your pot is fake in your face in China or Taiwan. Nobody, until you try to sell it to them.

There's an unwritten rule that you don't tell someone they have a fake. You just don't. People get angry, as you're seeing right here.

So, take it or leave it, it's my opinion and I'm standing by it - I can go to Taiwan tomorrow and pick out 50 pots that look like the one pictured. This looks more like a Taiwanese remake from the 80s rather than an actual late Qing pot.

Yes, maybe if the higher resolution picture changes the way it looks dramatically, I'll reconsider. Judging from what it looks like right now, chances of it being genuine is pretty low.
Is that the guy who said golf filters are used during the ROC?

:lol:

Seriously, you don't know what you talk about. Stop before you become hilarious.
Enjoy the Beijing teapot scene.
Experienced collector.

What's the seal? how to read it?
Not 100% on the left since it's a bit blurry, but looks to be 孟臣惠記. Since when do seals tell you the age of the pot? It's the most easily faked thing.
nice. now evidence, please.
Evidence of what?

Your pot's lid is all wrong, never mind the shuiping seal. Your under the lid shot confirms it, if anything. Late Qing zhuni - the lip extending from the lid should be a lot thinner and deeper. Yours is newer, thicker, and shorter. Not saying it's not possible, since anything is possible, but it doesn't look like any of the confirmed Qing zhuni pots I've seen.

The spout, the shape, the proportion... late Qing is a real stretch. It's hard to tell the clay quality, but I'm wondering if it's zhuni as well, but that needs better pictures. Republic and we might have some room for play, but highest chance is 80s Taiwan remake. Looks a lot like those, and I've seen hundreds of them when I lived in Taiwan (and bought a few). Your pot is also in perfect condition. Sure, it's possible, but again, for a 100+ years old pot that's traveled around, with multiple wars in between? Um, how much did you pay again?

Look, I have no skin in the game. I don't sell any pots I own. I don't care if you wasted money or not. I could've just shut up and say "nice pot". I could be wrong, and if I am, well, it happens. But your pot doesn't look right given what I've seen, at least it doesn't look right for what's being claimed. If you feel confident that the guy who sold you the pot is the real deal, go for it. I just visited some guy's home recently who bought a fake Hongyin for $15000 USD ten years ago from Yue Hua Chinese Department Store. He thought it was real, because he never drank it and wanted to save it for something, I guess. Yue Hua is big when it comes with selling Chinese goods, or so we like to think. Now he's dead, and the tea is as fake as they come and is basically worthless. Buyer beware.

Sellers would all tell you it's Qing, because that's how they sell them. Doesn't mean they're actually Qing, but lots of people who buy them believe it and reconfirm each other and believe what they have is Qing. Before you know it, nobody knows what a Qing pot looks like anymore.

For laughs, check this facebook group. There are some "Qing" pots there.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/540990739294003/

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Apr 30th, '14, 14:51
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Re: Official what Oolong are You Drinking Right Now?

by chrl42 » Apr 30th, '14, 14:51

MarshalN wrote:
chrl42 wrote:
MarshalN wrote:
chrl42 wrote:
MarshalN wrote:
chrl42 wrote:
MarshalN wrote:
Tead Off wrote:I am not questioning the authenticity, just trying to explain that it is difficult for people to judge through small photos because you feel that Marshaln is wrong about your pot. I think within your group, if it were not Qing, someone would have spoken up already.

Shuiping was stamped on many Qing style pots from later periods and so were Mengchen inscriptions on the bottom. We cannot judge the age of pots from these, but from the clay and the look.
Tead Off, from my experience talking with hundreds of tea/teaware collector in Greater China, NOBODY would tell you that your pot is fake in your face in China or Taiwan. Nobody, until you try to sell it to them.

There's an unwritten rule that you don't tell someone they have a fake. You just don't. People get angry, as you're seeing right here.

So, take it or leave it, it's my opinion and I'm standing by it - I can go to Taiwan tomorrow and pick out 50 pots that look like the one pictured. This looks more like a Taiwanese remake from the 80s rather than an actual late Qing pot.

Yes, maybe if the higher resolution picture changes the way it looks dramatically, I'll reconsider. Judging from what it looks like right now, chances of it being genuine is pretty low.
Is that the guy who said golf filters are used during the ROC?

:lol:

Seriously, you don't know what you talk about. Stop before you become hilarious.
Enjoy the Beijing teapot scene.
Experienced collector.

What's the seal? how to read it?
Not 100% on the left since it's a bit blurry, but looks to be 孟臣惠記. Since when do seals tell you the age of the pot? It's the most easily faked thing.
nice. now evidence, please.
Evidence of what?

Your pot's lid is all wrong, never mind the shuiping seal. Your under the lid shot confirms it, if anything. Late Qing zhuni - the lip extending from the lid should be a lot thinner and deeper. Yours is newer, thicker, and shorter. Not saying it's not possible, since anything is possible, but it doesn't look like any of the confirmed Qing zhuni pots I've seen.

The spout, the shape, the proportion... late Qing is a real stretch. It's hard to tell the clay quality, but I'm wondering if it's zhuni as well, but that needs better pictures. Republic and we might have some room for play, but highest chance is 80s Taiwan remake. Looks a lot like those, and I've seen hundreds of them when I lived in Taiwan (and bought a few). Your pot is also in perfect condition. Sure, it's possible, but again, for a 100+ years old pot that's traveled around, with multiple wars in between? Um, how much did you pay again?

Look, I have no skin in the game. I don't sell any pots I own. I don't care if you wasted money or not. I could've just shut up and say "nice pot". I could be wrong, and if I am, well, it happens. But your pot doesn't look right given what I've seen, at least it doesn't look right for what's being claimed. If you feel confident that the guy who sold you the pot is the real deal, go for it. I just visited some guy's home recently who bought a fake Hongyin for $15000 USD ten years ago. He thought it was real, because he never drank it. Now he's dead, and the tea is as fake as they come and is basically worthless. Buyer beware.

Sellers would all tell you it's Qing, because that's how they sell them. Doesn't mean they're actually Qing, but lots of people who buy them believe it and reconfirm each other and believe what they have is Qing. Before you know it, nobody knows what a Qing pot looks like anymore.

For laughs, check this facebook group. There are some "Qing" pots there.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/540990739294003/
see now you are becoming hilarious.

You obviously never seen the seal before, then act like the experienced.

You demonstrate 'one style' of late-Qing pots. :lol:

Geez how many late-Qing pots have you witnessed? Was there a rule to make that? Further discussion is useless since you don't even know the seal. I just can't know why I discuss 'antique Zhuni' with 'you'. The more you write, the more your ignorance exposed.

Simple inquiries, provide me 孟臣惠记 imitation, I can provide you written scripts of the starting date of a golf filter if you want. :|

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Re: Official what Oolong are You Drinking Right Now?

by chrl42 » Apr 30th, '14, 14:58

Seriously, I gotta sleep.

Just believe what you want, I shouldn't care since you are not an expert or authority of any form. To me, you are just mannerless guy with a little experience of tea drinking. Seeing how you describe the late-Qing Zhuni, I think you are too little experienced to talk on any matter of this field.

OK, my pot is a fake, end of the discussion.

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Re: Official what Oolong are You Drinking Right Now?

by sherubtse » Apr 30th, '14, 17:00

Geez folks, it's just a pot. :roll: Besides, this is a thread on oolongs, not pots.

Best wishes,
sherubtse

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Re: Official what Oolong are You Drinking Right Now?

by the_economist » Apr 30th, '14, 18:33

chrl42 wrote:Seriously, I gotta sleep.

Just believe what you want, I shouldn't care since you are not an expert or authority of any form. To me, you are just mannerless guy with a little experience of tea drinking. Seeing how you describe the late-Qing Zhuni, I think you are too little experienced to talk on any matter of this field.

OK, my pot is a fake, end of the discussion.
You claimed it is late Qing from the start, so the burden of evidence is really on you. If you don't like Marshal's arguments, then just say you disagree and why, or just ignore them. You don't have to say he doesn't know anything (a pointless ad hominem) when it is obvious he knows many things.

What's more, you started a discussion on pots in the oolong thread for some strange reason. This is partly my fault, I should not have responded to your question on my post drinking yancha.

You think it is real (although you haven't actually provided arguments for it) and Marshal thinks its fake. The rest of us can read the arguments listed on both sides and judge. I think these discussions are valuable and should be kept, even if they are in the wrong thread or even if they are not 'nice'.

Chip could you move those last few posts to a thread in the Teaware forum instead? Thanks :D :D

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Apr 30th, '14, 19:41
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Late Qing?

by chrl42 » Apr 30th, '14, 19:41

the_economist wrote:
chrl42 wrote:Seriously, I gotta sleep.

Just believe what you want, I shouldn't care since you are not an expert or authority of any form. To me, you are just mannerless guy with a little experience of tea drinking. Seeing how you describe the late-Qing Zhuni, I think you are too little experienced to talk on any matter of this field.

OK, my pot is a fake, end of the discussion.
You claimed it is late Qing from the start, so the burden of evidence is really on you. If you don't like Marshal's arguments, then just say you disagree and why, or just ignore them. You don't have to say he doesn't know anything (a pointless ad hominem) when it is obvious he knows many things.

What's more, you started a discussion on pots in the oolong thread for some strange reason. This is partly my fault, I should not have responded to your question on my post drinking yancha.

You think it is real (although you haven't actually provided arguments for it) and Marshal thinks its fake. The rest of us can read the arguments listed on both sides and judge. I think these discussions are valuable and should be kept, even if they are in the wrong thread or even if they are not 'nice'.

Chip could you move those last few posts to a thread in the Teaware forum instead? Thanks :D :D
Look, someone asked me the photo, it's not me but someone (wert). Look over if you are blind.

I could be more tender or informative if the pot was a difficult matter or master-kind. Truth is this kind of pot is real easy, I am sure I've seen 90s Zhuni (not 80s really) much more than M. Clay is different, firing is different, making is different.

90s Zhuni were made by masters, pretty neat in perfection, fired in gas kiln, bubbles or darken spot don't really occur. Mid-Qings are harder in this point since many of them are low-fired, too.

Late-Qing Zhuni is noticeable both in firing and the clay, silky Zhaozhuang Zhuni was the favorite clay by studio Changji and Fuji back then. If the pot was authenticated by less experienced ones than M's, I wouldn't be this way.

The problem is he knows how to ignore others opinion or the facts while himself is really shallow. I know you follow M, but sometimes if you think care about other's mental status, too.
Last edited by chrl42 on Apr 30th, '14, 20:14, edited 2 times in total.

Apr 30th, '14, 20:07
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Re: Official what Oolong are You Drinking Right Now?

by shah82 » Apr 30th, '14, 20:07

I know that you got bad news...

However, nobody is going to believe you over MarshalN, if only because he is the most expert on the topic of pots and deigns to communicate some of his knowledge to the rest of us in English. You need to come up with an affirmative answer that's something other than an ad hominem, because I can guess that most people have that image of Cam'Ron pointing at you and going u mad?

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Re: Official what Oolong are You Drinking Right Now?

by Chip » Apr 30th, '14, 20:08

OK, I will be splitting this discussion off of this topic (What Oolong are You Drinking Right Now?) and place it under Teaware and Accessories ... new topic title will be ... hmmm ... "Late Qing?"

It would be great to have the discussion continue in a more ... civil manner. :mrgreen:

Chip


I will be locking this topic during this process so I will not miss any new posts. As soon as it is split/moved, I will unlock it.

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Re: Official what Oolong are You Drinking Right Now?

by chrl42 » Apr 30th, '14, 20:32

shah82 wrote:I know that you got bad news...

However, nobody is going to believe you over MarshalN, if only because he is the most expert on the topic of pots and deigns to communicate some of his knowledge to the rest of us in English. You need to come up with an affirmative answer that's something other than an ad hominem, because I can guess that most people have that image of Cam'Ron pointing at you and going u mad?
That's the community you are in, fine.

Please, it's not believe me not, I don't even care. Like I said, this pot is real easy game and I am talking with people who don't even know the seal. :?

I would be much more educative if you or M, are something to be respectful or authority, too. You just don't know I'm playing *sigh*

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Re: Late Qing?

by chrl42 » Apr 30th, '14, 20:54

It just sums up that teachat.com is not ready for 'late-Qing'.

If I have posted another one....geez.

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