To Zhu Ni or not to Zhu Ni?
It's not a trick question. Just sourcing potential information related to this little fellow. I own one confirmed zhuni teapot in my collection. So I have little to go by at this point (and would like to understand zhuni better!). BUT... this sounds like zhuni, acts like zhuni, and the inside of the teapot looks exactly the same as my other zhuni teapot. Comments and assistance requested. Thanks!
Re: To Zhu Ni or not to Zhu Ni?
There's zhu ni, and then there's zhu ni. Many different levels of quality involved, vintage vs. modern, and lots of fake stuff too.
Judging by the super-visable joint lines running behind the handle and the spout, the craftsmanship of your pot is pretty... well... bad. Sorry, but there it is. Anytime a pot has very common craftsmanship, I automatically assume the clay is pretty low quality as well (unless we're talking about the very mass produced end of older Factory stuff which may be made from great clay despite the rushed laissez-faire craftsmanship).
Whatever this clay is, it has a lot of sand or other clay mixed in, due to the bumpy texture. I've seen the faking of zhu ni shrinkage lines ("muscle lines") done by texturing the outer surface using tissue paper, but I don't think that's what's going on here. My guess would be just very high fired common red clay with sand mixed in that showing a slight bit of shrinkage due to the firing. I'll let the better educated folks tell you differently if I'm wrong though, which is always a possibility! The changing texture seen on the bottom of the pot has me scratching my head to be honest.
Long story short, I wouldn't worry too much about trying to ID this pot. Just decide if it makes good tea, and if you like it enough to keep it and raise it!
Judging by the super-visable joint lines running behind the handle and the spout, the craftsmanship of your pot is pretty... well... bad. Sorry, but there it is. Anytime a pot has very common craftsmanship, I automatically assume the clay is pretty low quality as well (unless we're talking about the very mass produced end of older Factory stuff which may be made from great clay despite the rushed laissez-faire craftsmanship).
Whatever this clay is, it has a lot of sand or other clay mixed in, due to the bumpy texture. I've seen the faking of zhu ni shrinkage lines ("muscle lines") done by texturing the outer surface using tissue paper, but I don't think that's what's going on here. My guess would be just very high fired common red clay with sand mixed in that showing a slight bit of shrinkage due to the firing. I'll let the better educated folks tell you differently if I'm wrong though, which is always a possibility! The changing texture seen on the bottom of the pot has me scratching my head to be honest.
Long story short, I wouldn't worry too much about trying to ID this pot. Just decide if it makes good tea, and if you like it enough to keep it and raise it!
Re: To Zhu Ni or not to Zhu Ni?
I think i read somewhere that a broken zhuni teapot would reveal black beneath the surface... true or false? Thanks for your advice ting. The bottom is intriguing because it is the most zhuni like. I dont know enough to warrant my own opinion but im open to all ideas and comments. It did take a bleach soak after these photos were taken to ready it for my own use.
Re: To Zhu Ni or not to Zhu Ni?
I also think it's some kind of hong ni, but I am not an expert so I'd like to hear what others think about it. It's hard to judge from pictures, also because the first one was taken in low light conditions and the colors seem off, the others seem taken under direct sunlight so there is a lot of reflection. It would be ideal to have a picture with daylight but indoors, or on a cloudy day...
Re: To Zhu Ni or not to Zhu Ni?
I'll do that sooner than later. But for the record, the seal reads "Fu Ji" (福记) and is the name of a "zisha" shop. Thought I'd relay that. Making progress... Cheers!steanze wrote:I also think it's some kind of hong ni, but I am not an expert so I'd like to hear what others think about it. It's hard to judge from pictures, also because the first one was taken in low light conditions and the colors seem off, the others seem taken under direct sunlight so there is a lot of reflection. It would be ideal to have a picture with daylight but indoors, or on a cloudy day...
http://www.t4u.com.tw/chat2/viewthread. ... tid=118580
Scroll down to #17. A match on the "exact" seal. Still not sure on the clay. But question, would they use the same seal on different clay?
Re: To Zhu Ni or not to Zhu Ni?
Late Qing Huanlong Mt zhuni teapot
Zhao Zhuang early ROC zhuni teapot
Taiwan export Cultural Revolution Factory 1 zhuni teapot
New zhuni 1990s teapot
Source
Oct 22nd, '14, 03:11
Posts: 1144
Joined: Jul 10th, '13, 01:38
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Location: Japan.
Re: To Zhu Ni or not to Zhu Ni?
From what I know F1 never made Zhuni teapots, at least not officially.
Correct me if I am wrong!
Regards.
Correct me if I am wrong!
Regards.
Re: To Zhu Ni or not to Zhu Ni?
More likely, during the CR, the main export destinations were SE asia and Japan, commercial trade with Taiwan only occurred after mid-80s..before that, pots going into Taiwan were via HK...commercial collaboration with HK and Yixing happened since late-70s...correct me if I'm wrong!William wrote:From what I know F1 never made Zhuni teapots, at least not officially.
Correct me if I am wrong!
Regards.
Re: To Zhu Ni or not to Zhu Ni?
Yes, 福記 is a well known studio, I remember it being mentioned in an earlier post. The question is whether there are fakes around, and how to distinguish them from the real pots.heliospace wrote:I'll do that sooner than later. But for the record, the seal reads "Fu Ji" (福记) and is the name of a "zisha" shop. Thought I'd relay that. Making progress... Cheers!steanze wrote:I also think it's some kind of hong ni, but I am not an expert so I'd like to hear what others think about it. It's hard to judge from pictures, also because the first one was taken in low light conditions and the colors seem off, the others seem taken under direct sunlight so there is a lot of reflection. It would be ideal to have a picture with daylight but indoors, or on a cloudy day...
http://www.t4u.com.tw/chat2/viewthread. ... tid=118580
Scroll down to #17. A match on the "exact" seal. Still not sure on the clay. But question, would they use the same seal on different clay?
With respect to your question, it is quite common to use the same seal on different clay - usually the seal indicates the craftsman or the studio. If the craftsman or studio produces teapots with more than one type of clay, the seal will usually remain the same. Sometimes a craftsman uses more than one seal, but usually the seal is not changed depending on the type of clay. Sometimes earlier pots get a seal and then the seal changes for later pots, sometimes half handmade and fully handmade pots get different seals.
Oct 22nd, '14, 11:32
Posts: 1144
Joined: Jul 10th, '13, 01:38
Scrolling: scrolling
Location: Japan.
Re: To Zhu Ni or not to Zhu Ni?
ZZ Zhuni should be orangish in colour, right? From what I know even the lower grade that are used these days are orangish.The ones heavy fired have a simular colour. So the second example posted by Bagua or it was heavy fired or it is not ZZ Zhuni.chrl42 wrote:More likely, during the CR, the main export destinations were SE asia and Japan, commercial trade with Taiwan only occurred after mid-80s..before that, pots going into Taiwan were via HK...commercial collaboration with HK and Yixing happened since late-70s...correct me if I'm wrong!William wrote:From what I know F1 never made Zhuni teapots, at least not officially.
Correct me if I am wrong!
Regards.
Correct me if I am wrong!
Re: To Zhu Ni or not to Zhu Ni?
William wrote:ZZ Zhuni should be orangish in colour, right? From what I know even the lower grade that are used these days are orangish.The ones heavy fired have a simular colour. So the second example posted by Bagua or it was heavy fired or it is not ZZ Zhuni.chrl42 wrote:More likely, during the CR, the main export destinations were SE asia and Japan, commercial trade with Taiwan only occurred after mid-80s..before that, pots going into Taiwan were via HK...commercial collaboration with HK and Yixing happened since late-70s...correct me if I'm wrong!William wrote:From what I know F1 never made Zhuni teapots, at least not officially.
Correct me if I am wrong!
Regards.
Correct me if I am wrong!
The second one looks fine to me, the picture was taken in low light conditions so it seems darker than it is...
Re: To Zhu Ni or not to Zhu Ni?
From what I know, the one with a high amount of natural Shihuang clay tends to be redder. Also related with a temperature of firing, late-Qing and ROC Zhuni were very delicate and shrunk high, so they were fired at kinda lower temperature, that's why they tend to be orange-ish.steanze wrote:William wrote:ZZ Zhuni should be orangish in colour, right? From what I know even the lower grade that are used these days are orangish.The ones heavy fired have a simular colour. So the second example posted by Bagua or it was heavy fired or it is not ZZ Zhuni.chrl42 wrote:More likely, during the CR, the main export destinations were SE asia and Japan, commercial trade with Taiwan only occurred after mid-80s..before that, pots going into Taiwan were via HK...commercial collaboration with HK and Yixing happened since late-70s...correct me if I'm wrong!William wrote:From what I know F1 never made Zhuni teapots, at least not officially.
Correct me if I am wrong!
Regards.
Correct me if I am wrong!
Modern ZZ Zhuni has no correct sources, gotta be careful.
Re: To Zhu Ni or not to Zhu Ni?
I had to ask here. It is a perplexing issue. This teapot came from a collector who actually had collected a few of these teapots prior to his passing that had various stamps from the same shop. I know the matter with fake seals and such. And I know the matter with fake clay. This, in person, appears to be more of a reddish-brown vs orange, or any other color. It definitely isn't a "red" but more of a cinnamon red. And from what I thought, zhu ni meant cinnabar clay. I suppose my terminology may be off, but I do appreciate the insight nonetheless and bagua7, thank you for posting those pots. Really helps!!! Cheers!
Re: To Zhu Ni or not to Zhu Ni?
Most welcome. That's why why have this lovely community, helping each other out and always learning something new in this 'bottomless rabbit hole.' 