Issue with long term drinking and conscious sleeping

[DanTeaMan]

Hello,
I've been drinking for some 20 years, ever since discovering Japanese green while working in Tokyo. Since then I've been drinking 2-6 (sometimes more or less) a day of only green. Since the nuclear meltdown I've switched to primarily Chinese and other greens.

I drink only in the morning before breakfast these days, so the stimulants should metabolize by the end of the day. The problem is my sleep. When I'm drinking tea I sleep more actively and am more conscious. When I wake up I easily wake and often start thinking, so am unable to sleep again. With my work (engineering) I need a full night of deep sleep so I can work so it's been an issue.

So I go down to one cup of tea. Now I'm dull, working slowly and having trouble keeping as focused as I'd like. I tried bringing it up to two cups and I felt great - focused and calm. But then I slept poorly that night.

I've studied the stimulants, I actually don't think it's caffeine which should be gone after 6 hours. I think it might be L-theanine which is focusing my mind, but keeping it too focused at night.

I've tried a lot of things, melatonin, concentration bio-feedback and such, but I'm looking for other ideas. Thoughts?

Dan

[Tead Off]

There are many factors operating simultaneously in one's body. Most of the problems we perceive are self-created by thinking. When thinking interferes with the natural bodily functions like sleep, it's time to be aware of what you are doing. This is primary.

If you just want to increase your focus and attentiveness, without jacking yourself up on caffeine or other stimulants, Hydergine, and other nootropic drugs which are safe, can be used without side effects and give good results. Acetyl-l-carnitine is another supplement that can raise energy levels considerably. You can google these for more info. I've used these for years.

Perhaps tea drinking is not for you. You may be overly sensitive to what is in tea. Perhaps a good exercise program will help you.

[kyarazen]

Hello,
I've been drinking for some 20 years, ever since discovering Japanese green while working in Tokyo. Since then I've been drinking 2-6 (sometimes more or less) a day of only green. Since the nuclear meltdown I've switched to primarily Chinese and other greens.

I drink only in the morning before breakfast these days, so the stimulants should metabolize by the end of the day. The problem is my sleep. When I'm drinking tea I sleep more actively and am more conscious. When I wake up I easily wake and often start thinking, so am unable to sleep again. With my work (engineering) I need a full night of deep sleep so I can work so it's been an issue.

So I go down to one cup of tea. Now I'm dull, working slowly and having trouble keeping as focused as I'd like. I tried bringing it up to two cups and I felt great - focused and calm. But then I slept poorly that night.

I've studied the stimulants, I actually don't think it's caffeine which should be gone after 6 hours. I think it might be L-theanine which is focusing my mind, but keeping it too focused at night.

I've tried a lot of things, melatonin, concentration bio-feedback and such, but I'm looking for other ideas. Thoughts?

Dan

switch to non green! i.e. oolong or ripe pu-erh

[ethan]

Suggestions: Wait one hour after waking up to drink tea. One should begin a day w/ water. One's body & mind takes an hour to get running well w/o stimulants. Once the body starts its own routine naturally, tea etc. drunk after that hour don't interfere as much as they would if taken before one is "really awake". Also, try some organic teas to test whether you are hypersensitive to chemicals.

[DanTeaMan]

Acetyl-l-carnitine is another supplement that can raise energy levels considerably. You can google these for more info. I've used these for years. ... Perhaps tea drinking is not for you. You may be overly sensitive to what is in tea. Perhaps a good exercise program will help you.

Yes I take that and have a supplementation program. I also have a considerable exercise program (running, cycling and weights). It's not energy levels, but the point I didn't make well is that I miss tea and want to bring it back more.

switch to non green! i.e. oolong or ripe pu-erh

pu-ehr is disgusting to my palate, and oolong is much worse caffeine wise. I get wired after drinking oolong (usually, depends on the oolong)

Suggestions: Wait one hour after waking up to drink tea. One should begin a day w/ water. One's body & mind takes an hour to get running well w/o stimulants. Once the body starts its own routine naturally, tea etc. drunk after that hour don't interfere as much as they would if taken before one is "really awake". Also, try some organic teas to test whether you are hypersensitive to chemicals.

Good ideas. I'll try the hour idea - actually that's a cracking idea. If I think back to my tea drinking over the years I think you're on to something there.

I do regularly have organic teas in my mix, don't see any obvious differences. Plus I was assured by a friend who works in international agriculture that when it comes to China especially (or any non-U.S.) you can forget any organic labels. It's just advertising.

[miig]

I kind of know what you mean, because it seems that I do experience a similar effect. It's not that extreme, but if I drink tea in the afternoon, I will sleep poorly and wake up quite exhausted.
But also other things like alcohol do have more effect on me than on most people, so this is not so much of a surprise.
So, I only drink tea in the first half of the day, usually after breakfast, that does not pose me any problems.
If I want to have some tea after noon, roasted teas are better for me than green teas, and as far as I know a heavy roasting does indeed remove a substantial amount of caffeine. So a green TGY might not have much less of it, but a darker Oolong would.
Also, if I was running that day, the problem is alleviated to a certain degree. I'd be surprised if you would have the same reaction to a Kuki-Cha (roasted Japanese tea, if you're willing to give them another try) or a traditional Oolong.
I hope you'll find a way to make this work for you!

[Whalebreath]

Get more exercise especially outdoors breathing fresh air.

[DanTeaMan]

Get more exercise especially outdoors breathing fresh air.

Not a problem with my lifestyle and house, besides which I was asking about the relationship between tea and sleep, not sleep issues in general.

Suggestions: Wait one hour after waking up to drink tea. One should begin a day w/ water. One's body & mind takes an hour to get running well w/o stimulants. Once the body starts its own routine naturally, tea etc. drunk after that hour don't interfere as much as they would if taken before one is "really awake".

Well I think ethan nailed it. I've experimented the past few days drinking three cups in the morning, but only water for the first hour and letting myself wake up naturally. While I am sleeping not as unconsciously and deep as I do without any tea, I'm sleeping much better and naturally overall, well enough for it not be an issue.

Immediately I noticed a positive effect with this program. What seemed to happen was by drinking tea so soon after I get up does indeed put my nerves on the raw edge. Cumulatively it was causing me to sleep poorly and be generally more irritable than otherwise. It does feel like the brain needs to establish a natural baseline when waking up before having external stimulants and relaxants.

Bravo ethan! Thank you so much for the suggestion. If you're still listening, where did you get that idea from?

[ethan]

Dan,

Glad you are in a better routine. I have tried lots of routines. I noticed waiting the hour helped a lot; &, stopping my drinking by 2 p.m. helped a little. I don't want to spend so much of my waking time not drinking; so, I committed to waiting an hour before drinking tea; &, I try to only drink tea low in caffeine after 2 p.m. (white tea or houjicha).

[William]

Dan,

Glad you are in a better routine. I have tried lots of routines. I noticed waiting the hour helped a lot; &, stopping my drinking by 2 p.m. helped a little. I don't want to spend so much of my waking time not drinking; so, I committed to waiting an hour before drinking tea; &, I try to only drink tea low in caffeine after 2 p.m. (white tea or houjicha).

White tea has much more caffeine than what would you think!

[DanTeaMan]

Glad you are in a better routine.

I have been waking up at night so am not sleeping as deeply. OTOH it's been very hot recently and other factors (kids homework). I think it'll end up that I don't sleep quite as deeply as when I don't drink, but the main thing is that the tea doesn't jangle my nerves as it did before at all, so overall I'm doing quite better.

I don't want to spend so much of my waking time not drinking;

Agreed, I prefer having access to tea all day.

so, I committed to waiting an hour before drinking tea; &, I try to only drink tea low in caffeine after 2 p.m. (white tea or houjicha).

I'm a green and white guy anyhow. Unfortunately the actual amount of caffeine seemingly varies quite a bit. I believe they shade the plants for expensive Sencha and Gyokuro which converts chlorophyll to caffeine, though they do it because it sweetens the leaf. So I just stop drinking by noon, seems to work well enough.

How much tea do you drink during the day ethan, and how do well do you sleep at night?

[wyardley]

I generally keep confine my tea drinking (and other caffeine) to before lunch, or 1-2 PM at the latest. My folks are the same way; some people just won't sleep well if they have too much caffeine late in the day.

I've been drinking tea or coffee daily for 10+ years, and that hasn't really changed despite habituation.

[ClarG]

Maybe you should switch to coffee, or black tea?

I drink a green tea or black tea in the afternoon no later than 3PM/15:00 and I do not have trouble sleeping but I drink a lot of water during the day.

[William]

I drink a green tea or black tea in the afternoon no later than 3PM/15:00 and I do not have trouble sleeping but I drink a lot of water during the day.

I think this is an important thing that should be taken into consideration.
I found over time that drinking some water between brews and/or teas helped me with the caffeine intake; I can now drink without problem until 6 or 7 pm.

[ethan]

I drink about 12 ounces of white tea most days, usually spread out, starting in the late afternoon. That is a time when I am almost constantly eating snacks & drinking water also; so, perhaps caffeine is not able to hit me as hard as it might.

I sleep fine, but I did not sleep so well when I was drinking black tea all day long. I rarely drink more than 8 oz. a day now & usually not after 2 pm.