A case for older (cheaper) tea?


Made from leaves that have not been oxidized.

For best health benefits, I would ...

Drink later flushes of green tea if they have higher catechin levels
1
4%
Drink 1st flush if it has more catechins
1
4%
Drink more 1st flush to make up for lower catechins
1
4%
Drink more later flushes to make up for lower catechins
0
No votes
I will just drink what I like, 1st flush for me
20
77%
I will drink what I like, later flushes for me
0
No votes
Other
3
12%
 
Total votes : 26

Re: A case for older (cheaper) tea?

Postby gingkoseto » Sep 18th, '11, 17:15

In God we trust. All others should bring data.
But meantime, No data set tells the whole story.
So hopefully science is for exploring the unknowns, not for boosting the arrogance of scientists. :wink:

Besides, I don't hope it's a forum rule that everything has to come with its source. For example, I don't remember where the above quotes are from :oops:
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Re: A case for older (cheaper) tea?

Postby solitude » Sep 18th, '11, 17:43

It is not a rule I just personally appreciate it, I can check the source and make my conclusion.
On the other hand not everything what is published has to be necessarily true :).
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Re: A case for older (cheaper) tea?

Postby sherubtse » Sep 18th, '11, 18:49

gingkoseto wrote:In God we trust. All others should bring data.


There is also the quip: "In God we trust; all others pay cash." :)

Best wishes,
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Re: A case for older (cheaper) tea?

Postby solitude » Sep 19th, '11, 04:50

a.serrao wrote:
solitude wrote:finally another topic with some action, chip please do not lock this one, hehe.

I really appreciate that citation to scientific studies are posted and discussed and not wikipedia and other sources.
Does somebody have reference to the paper(s) where the transformation of theanine to catechines are described? thanks



Qui: http://www.scribd.com/doc/51630252/3/Bi ... -Catechins

Capitolo 2, Figura 3, in basso a sinistra.

grazie
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Re: A case for older (cheaper) tea?

Postby teaisme » Sep 21st, '11, 17:19

a.serrao's statements sound familiar...

I remember last year Den's tea promoting a mid autumn bancha for more something...I'm pretty sure it was catechins....checking...

Ok the mid autumn bancha is gone, but I did find this on Den's website.

"The EGCG mentioned above is one of the catechins in green tea. While there are three other beneficial catechins in green tea, EGCG is the most powerful"

"Bancha: Bancha has the most EGCG of the green teas. Brew it with boiled water and brew longer than for a normal cup (more than 2 minutes). This will make a strong cup of tea with plenty of catechins. You can either enjoy this strong cup of tea at teatime or cool the tea and gargle with it. (Gargling for viral prevention is practiced more in Japan than in North America.)"
http://www.denstea.com/green_tea_health.html

So according to Den's bancha has the most egcg, whether most catechins in total that is still not clear...but it is a step towards what a.serrao has been saying. I also have vague recollection of reading something similar in a journal somewhere but I can't remember where sorry :(
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Re: A case for older (cheaper) tea?

Postby DBentz » Sep 22nd, '11, 20:18

A scientific approach to which tea merits the title of "healthiest" would probably have to compare methods of ingestion as well as the chemical compositions of different teas. Also of necessity, it would ultimately butt it's head against the limitations of the current state of biology and medicine. Interesting though it might be, I can't believe many people could, or would even want to, tailor their palates to whatever the results of such an endeavor were. As far as stigmatizing those of us who like to gaze at our navels oops, I mean contemplate the virtues and shortcomings of various teas on our palates, I say you must not live in the Pacific Northwest where no obsession goes unheeded and anyone who doesn't share one's own particular obsesson is free to be ignored by those who do. Call us "snobs" if it makes you feel more "normal" or "mainstream" about the primitive, self-destructive, and tiresome obsessions you waste your life on, but true class conscious "snobs" are nowhere to be found among the peasants I live and work with. And if you could find any true snobs where I live, how good at it could they be living here in the provinces?
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Re: A case for older (cheaper) tea?

Postby a.serrao » Sep 26th, '11, 14:45

I'm still waiting for Kevin's reply...
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Re: A case for older (cheaper) tea?

Postby teaisme » Sep 26th, '11, 16:49

I would just let it go buddy :wink:

Just know that I can relate to your frustration/discontentment/disappointment with what has been said in this tread, along with another thread that has been locked already
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Re: A case for older (cheaper) tea?

Postby Chip » Sep 26th, '11, 17:53

a.serrao wrote:I'm still waiting for Kevin's reply...

I still wonder why the obsession over a few possible percentage points based upon the figures you posted?

Again I ask, are you living by example, practicing what you preach ... are you drinking nibancha brewed in ultra hot water for 10 minutes with lemon drops for acidity ... since this is the best way to extract and for the body to absorb these catechins??? If you are, are you enjoying it? These are legitimate questions, I feel. :idea:

Or is this simply an attempt at intellectual enlightenment?

I am currently enjoying a First flush, the taste is devine, the aroma eye popping. Since the difference is only a few percentage points ... assuming you are correct, why not just drink more first flush ... or max it and drink LOTS more!

I drink around 300 grams or more of FF sencha a month, usually zero of later harvests. So, I am getting lots of catechins and enjoying the ride as well. :mrgreen:
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Re: A case for older (cheaper) tea?

Postby teaisme » Sep 26th, '11, 18:01

Chip wrote:since this is the best way to extract

I would also like to add that... for the people who only seek tea for health benefits...80% ethanol will extract the catcheins much more effectively then hot water alone.
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Re: A case for older (cheaper) tea?

Postby AdamMY » Sep 26th, '11, 18:07

teaisme wrote:
Chip wrote:since this is the best way to extract

I would also like to add that... for the people who only seek tea for health benefits...80% ethanol will extract the catcheins much more effectively then hot water alone.


Woo hoo!!!! Best news for health conscious party goers in quite some time!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: A case for older (cheaper) tea?

Postby Chip » Sep 26th, '11, 18:15

teaisme wrote:
Chip wrote:since this is the best way to extract

I would also like to add that... for the people who only seek tea for health benefits...80% ethanol will extract the catcheins much more effectively then hot water alone.

:lol:
I should have mentioned, this was stated by a.serrao as best technique for extraction and absorbtion. :mrgreen:
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Re: A case for older (cheaper) tea?

Postby a.serrao » Sep 26th, '11, 18:30

Chip wrote:I still wonder why the obsession over a few possible percentage points based upon the figures you posted?


It's simple.
It's not my obsession, it's Kevin's assertion:

Kevangogh wrote: I definitely am not conceding that I am wrong on this point but the next time I get to Fukushima I will pull out the files and site my sources. I will probably go there next weekend.


@Chip: don't try to turn over the question. The original one was: "What japanese green tea flush has the most catechins content?
It wasn't: "How does mr. a.serrao take his green tea"?

Having said that, what I'd like to hear is Kevin's response and the articles he said supported his original statement. All other things are hot air.
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Re: A case for older (cheaper) tea?

Postby a.serrao » Sep 26th, '11, 18:36

Chip wrote:I should have mentioned, this was stated by a.serrao as best technique for extraction and absorbtion. :mrgreen:


I'm sorry to say that again you're wrong: I never said that.
Actually I've said:

a.serrao wrote:I must add, for completeness' sake, that catechins are best absorbed in the intestine if the pH of the infusion is on the acidic side. Suffice to add some lemon juice drops to the tea.


As you can see I was talking about absorption, NOT extraction...
:D
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Re: A case for older (cheaper) tea?

Postby Chip » Sep 26th, '11, 18:50

a.serrao wrote:
Chip wrote:I still wonder why the obsession over a few possible percentage points based upon the figures you posted?


It's simple.
It's not my obsession, it's Kevin's assertion:

Kevangogh wrote: I definitely am not conceding that I am wrong on this point but the next time I get to Fukushima I will pull out the files and site my sources. I will probably go there next weekend.


@Chip: don't try to turn over the question. The original one was: "What japanese green tea flush has the most catechins content?
It wasn't: "How does mr. a.serrao take his green tea"?

Having said that, what I'd like to hear is Kevin's response and the articles he said supported his original statement. All other things are hot air.

I think my question is legitimate. If you are seemingly recommending or endorsing a practice, we should know if you are actually following such a practice. Inquiring minds want to know ... :mrgreen:

It is your choice to answer ... or not. I have shared my practice, what I endorse as an alternative solution, just drink more FF to make up for possible lower catechin levels (if this is 100% true which is still debatable). This topic is not really to debate without application. I mean, that is the whole point, right? I have seen other members state their practice in this topic.

Your recommendations defy application for most TCers, heck is anyone following this practice ... or are we debating ... arguing over something that has no real world application.

Nibancha, brewed ultra hot, 10 minutes, with lemon for body absorption per a.serrao's recommendation earlier, is anyone going to do this?

I mean, this is where the rubber hits the road. Right?
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