Good points, Bamboo.
You got me thinking... maybe it's gay for a man to want to drink a manly beverage? Shouldn't a man be more attracted to a feminine beverage? Perhaps coffee drinking is the way some men express their sexual preference.
Nov 10th, '07, 15:03
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scruffmcgruff
Interesting philosophical points indeed...
That said, coffee can also be viewed as "feminine." How many "manly" men would attest to ordering a caramel machiatto with soy milk/etc? And how many macho dudes would be seen drinking out of those little espresso cups? Perhaps it's more of a "caffeine is a necessity, therefore I drink coffee with just enough adulterants to make it drinkable/enjoyable" attitude.
I'm willing to bet that when most people think of tea they think of Victorian "high tea" settings and doilies and whatnot, so they project a feminine image on all forms of tea. [Edit: I just realized Mary already said this. Oops!] Also, it may be related to a masculinized, "patriotic," "pioneer" mindset, in that tea is seen as "Unamerican" (Boston tea party and all that) and overly civilized (think of the stereotypical British dandy vs. the stereotypical western cowboy). These are just guesses though-- I'm neither a sociologist or a historian.
That said, coffee can also be viewed as "feminine." How many "manly" men would attest to ordering a caramel machiatto with soy milk/etc? And how many macho dudes would be seen drinking out of those little espresso cups? Perhaps it's more of a "caffeine is a necessity, therefore I drink coffee with just enough adulterants to make it drinkable/enjoyable" attitude.
I'm willing to bet that when most people think of tea they think of Victorian "high tea" settings and doilies and whatnot, so they project a feminine image on all forms of tea. [Edit: I just realized Mary already said this. Oops!] Also, it may be related to a masculinized, "patriotic," "pioneer" mindset, in that tea is seen as "Unamerican" (Boston tea party and all that) and overly civilized (think of the stereotypical British dandy vs. the stereotypical western cowboy). These are just guesses though-- I'm neither a sociologist or a historian.
Last edited by scruffmcgruff on Nov 10th, '07, 17:25, edited 1 time in total.
Because this guy is sooo manly!fencerdenoctum wrote:...Us gentlemen just have to wear top hats and monocles while we are at it.
Just teasing! If y'all will break out the top hats and monocles, I'll totally spring for the dainty treats.
Nov 10th, '07, 17:42
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I wonder what America considers manly, then - a country which has television commercials selling drugs to a wide swathe of men to help cure their lack of ability to get an erection.
How manly is that? Or the pot-bellied sports fan drinking a beer and eating something completely nutriotionally void - is that manly?
I think it's funny that so many people can - or would want to - relate to such terrible stereotypes. Is the best life not about nuance, the female bodybuilder being no less feminine and beautiful than the slightly overweight woman in a dress next to her, and the scowling man covered tattoos no less masculine than the effete, well dressed skinny man laughing with his friends? Aren't these nuances what make life interesting? Why do we aspire to deconstructive oversimplification? The really interesting stuff is always in between - heck, that's what got us looking for the best sencha (or pu erh)... and it's what makes life so much fun.
Stereotyping is always vile, because it relies on a judgement to be made about what a person is rather than who they are. It leads one down a very dangerous path of isolation and rationalized self-sabotage.
Give me a vodka mugicha any day over a beer. Less calories and it really does taste better. I never knew tea was anything other than a plant, and a very healthy way of learning about other cultures and meeting people you wouldn't have known before (like this message board). Is that --- feminine?
And bear in mind as well that all this is reliant on the notion that femininity is somehow a bad thing - (a 'fancy' man?) - that notion is also terribly alienating (I like many women, and don't hold their muliebrity against them). At least, if we are to believe the stereotypes, masculinity is somehow more valid or preferable...
...which itself is so microbrained and baby-level simplified, as though any single person worth getting to know isn't a synthesis of the two qualities...
...AAAAAARGH!!!!!
How manly is that? Or the pot-bellied sports fan drinking a beer and eating something completely nutriotionally void - is that manly?
I think it's funny that so many people can - or would want to - relate to such terrible stereotypes. Is the best life not about nuance, the female bodybuilder being no less feminine and beautiful than the slightly overweight woman in a dress next to her, and the scowling man covered tattoos no less masculine than the effete, well dressed skinny man laughing with his friends? Aren't these nuances what make life interesting? Why do we aspire to deconstructive oversimplification? The really interesting stuff is always in between - heck, that's what got us looking for the best sencha (or pu erh)... and it's what makes life so much fun.
Stereotyping is always vile, because it relies on a judgement to be made about what a person is rather than who they are. It leads one down a very dangerous path of isolation and rationalized self-sabotage.
Give me a vodka mugicha any day over a beer. Less calories and it really does taste better. I never knew tea was anything other than a plant, and a very healthy way of learning about other cultures and meeting people you wouldn't have known before (like this message board). Is that --- feminine?
And bear in mind as well that all this is reliant on the notion that femininity is somehow a bad thing - (a 'fancy' man?) - that notion is also terribly alienating (I like many women, and don't hold their muliebrity against them). At least, if we are to believe the stereotypes, masculinity is somehow more valid or preferable...
...which itself is so microbrained and baby-level simplified, as though any single person worth getting to know isn't a synthesis of the two qualities...
...AAAAAARGH!!!!!
Nov 10th, '07, 23:48
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Nov 11th, '07, 00:02
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scruffmcgruff
Honestly... I don't see anything to get worked up about. I don't give a rat's ass whether someone thinks I'm manly or not, regardless of their definition of "manly," be it the American definition or any other.
As for stereotypes, while they are inherently bound to be wrong on an individual basis, the truth is that most are rooted in real trends. Ironically, it appears to be that you have stereotyped the American public as having incorrect and deeply-rooted conceptions of masculinity and femininity. (Though I do agree that this stereotype is, in large part, true.)
Anyway... let's just chill out. The Onion wrote a a satirical piece, whether we think it funny or not, and did not intend to offend or alienate anyone. It's just a joke.
As for stereotypes, while they are inherently bound to be wrong on an individual basis, the truth is that most are rooted in real trends. Ironically, it appears to be that you have stereotyped the American public as having incorrect and deeply-rooted conceptions of masculinity and femininity. (Though I do agree that this stereotype is, in large part, true.)
Anyway... let's just chill out. The Onion wrote a a satirical piece, whether we think it funny or not, and did not intend to offend or alienate anyone. It's just a joke.
Nov 11th, '07, 00:29
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Nov 11th, '07, 15:58
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I was watching Human Weapon on Kung Fu (I do martial arts, so it's mindless entertainment for me). One Chinese tradition was to give green tea before fighting because of the antibiotic properties. Both Jason and Bill remarked that maybe they should drink green tea every time before they go to spar.
My husband actually wondered aloud if he should drink green tea simply for health.
I pointed out it has very little caffeine.
My husband actually wondered aloud if he should drink green tea simply for health.
I pointed out it has very little caffeine.
Nov 12th, '07, 14:46
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twistedinside
Oh, without question (note: anecdotal evidence)twistedinside wrote:
This, to me, is an excellent quality in a man. Perhaps TEAmen make better lovers?
I only posted the Onion article because I thought it made great fun of the people who would actually hold those strange beliefs about tea drinkers. I think it's pretty funny.
Trey