Dragon Tea House

[Chip]

Although I have no personal experience with DTH, my general experience with Chinese greens is there comes a point of diminishing returns the higher in quality AND PRICE you go.

I can usually justify the increase in quality and price to a point, finding my niche around the middle to upper grades. I rarely however go to the absolute highest grades as the increase in price is rarely justifiable from a taste aspect. It is often more cosmetic or only discernable in side by side tasting and comparisons.

Just an example, I can be pretty content with a higher quality Xi Hu Long Jing from a reputable seller costing 20 to 40 USD per 50 grams. I would not be so happy with one costing 75 USD or more that tastes the same.

[Geekgirl]

Although I have no personal experience with DTH, my general experience with Chinese greens is there comes a point of diminishing returns the higher in quality AND PRICE you go.

I suppose that is true of any type of tea (wine, beer, chocolate, pick your poison,) in which a person is an enthusiast, but not necessarily a connoisseur. For example, I would say the identical thing about sencha, shincha, matcha, which I note by your postings, you derive great enjoyment out of some of the premium offerings, and for the connoisseur there is a discernible difference between the medium grades and top grades.

In my experience, there is still a measurable jump in quality with certain chinese green teas, such as pi lo chun, dragonwell, jasmine, when you make the leap to the highest grade. Someone else who is not as drawn to those varieties, may well think I'm crazy for paying 50-100% MORE per ounce for the top grade vs. the middle grade right below. (And they may be right!)

In any instance, there are probably diminishing returns for all teas (wines, beers, chocolate, etc) once you reach a certain price plateau. But you can't create standardization through price of the connoisseur's or collector's enjoyment of the absolute highest grade.

/end meandering thoughts.

[Proinsias]

That's what I was thinking Geekgirl.

A few years ago I couldn't see much difference in really top grade long ling and low to medium grade stuff, freshness was about all I could detect. For me it's not usually about noticing a big difference when ordering expensive tea, it's more about the system shock when I get back to drinking my usual grades - the jump back down is far further than the jump up. This isn't too much of a problem at the moment as my budget doesn't really afford me the luxury of getting myself used to constant top notch teas.

Learning how to justify spending a small fortune on a few grams of tea takes time and dedication.

I've only had one order from DTH and it didn't contain different grades of the same teas so I can't really comment on that. I'm sure I've read discussion regarding the different grades of da hong pao that Gordon offered around here somewhere.

[Proinsias]

My memory is impeccable, the utility of the posts less so.

http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?p=31669#31669

[Salsero]

I have a question

I guess I have ordered almost exclusively puerh from Gordon. The couple of non-puerh teas I have order from DTH have been disappointing but not expensive. Course, it's been quite a while and he may have improved his offerings.

It would be great to do a tasting, individually or sharing, of all quality levels of two or three of Gordon's teas in order to answer this question. If you would like to organize something, cgencer, I am game to order one of each qaulity of whatever, taste them in isolation or share them out with other nosy parkers like me.

[devites]

I just ordered the lowest grade of long jing (premium) from DTH. If anyone wants to do a trade with any other grades then we could conduct tests.

[Salsero]

OK, I just ordered 100 grams each of the Nonpareil and Superfine. I think that leaves Supreme @ $29.90/100 gr still available and lots of non-Long Jing teas. Devites and I are both in. Anyone else? Course with China mail, it would be weeks before any of these actually arrive.

[joelbct]

In any instance, there are probably diminishing returns for all teas (wines, beers, chocolate, etc) once you reach a certain price plateau. But you can't create standardization through price of the connoisseur's or collector's enjoyment of the absolute highest grade.

This reminds me of a review I read recently for the movie Bottle Shock, about a California Winery in the 70's, when most connoisseurs laughed at California Wines being mentioned in the same sentence as Bordeaux, etc, and just thought of them as mass-market wines like Gallo. The movie leads up to a famous 1976 expert blind tasting of California vs French wines, in which the California Wines actually defeated the French Wines for the first time.

I don't know what the moral of this story is, aside from that 'reigning' opinions can carry momentum of their own, and affect pricing in ways that may not proportionally relate to taste or quality. I'm not saying that we will all be drinking Kenyan Green Tea instead of Chinese or Japanese in a few years tho

[Alesh]

I have a question for those who has ordered from Dragon Tea House. He usually has different grades for tea, no title being the lowest, then premium, then supreme and then "non-paraeil". Has anyone tried different grades of the same tea? Is there a big difference? I've ordered two "premium" teas from there (bi luo chun and long jing) and enjoy them both, however I wonder if there is a big difference with the "Nonpareil" versions, since they cost 3 times as much.

I am at the last few grams of both, the Long Jing "premium" and "superfine" from DTH.
I ordered two different grades of the same tea for that exact reason - so I could compare the difference in taste vs. the difference in price.

I am no LongJing expert, but the difference was very (!) apparent. The premium version was actually harder to brew right and had something more vegetal going on.. while the superfine was all about the sweet chestnut. My girl and my mother (no, not the same person ) both also confirmed, that "superfine" was easily superiour (tasted better) to the "premium"... and they know very little about tea.

So, my opinion: double the price for the superfine is totaly worth it.
Next time me and a friend will together buy 100g of "nonpareil" (50g each)...
At four times the price of "premium" version - I hope it won't dissapoint.

[devites]

Ok Salsero sent me Superfine and Nonpareli as well as Dragonwell Wild Mountain from Teasource.

As far as what I would order next time I think that (my dad agrees...blind taste test) it would definitely be the Superfine. Basically, everything I look for in a dragonwell sweet, nutty, and smooth as well as a lingering aftertaste which I have never encountered. The Supreme is a great everyday tea as it is cheap but does not taste inexpensive in anyway. The nonpareili was really not my thing a little too vegetal, the second time I tried it I liked it more so it may be an acquired taste. Dragonwell Wild Mountain was a wonderful Dragonwell that is easy to brew and produces a great cup. Overall Superfine is the way to go as far as best flavor, Supreme was a close second which wins everday tea award, Wild Mountain offers something wilder and different, Nonpareili is a good tea with some good qualities. I don't know, maybe I brewed it wrong. I will continue trials and update later. For the others I nailed it 1/2 teaspoon, 3.5oz gaiwan preheated, 180 F water for 2:10.

[Salsero]

Wow, my experience is really different! I have had only one or maybe two sessions with each tea, but I found the Dragonwell Wild Mountain to be the worst green I ever tasted! I guess I will have to give it a second or third chance after Devites' strong positive feelings, although it's true that we have differed dramatically on Japanese greens once or twice, so it may come down to different water, technique, or personal preference. After picking out some things at TeaSource, I asked if there was something else that was so compelling that I need to taste it. The girl said, "Just the Wild Mountain, and you already have that." So that's two people who disagree with me so far!

I felt the Nonpareil was the best Long Jing I have ever had. TeaSpring's Emperor LJ had occupied first place with me until now, but the Nonpareil is a definite step up. It is very forgiving of brewing errors, ethereal and lightly vegetal, with none of the oily taste that gives some pan fired teas a taste of raw cashews. I noted, "Very nice, clean. A neglected long soak gave a specifically umami sense of sweet thickness, nearly like a gyokuro. A tiny hint of acidity which really perks it up!" I found no astringency worth mentioning. I really love this stuff ... maybe not enough to buy another 100 gr at $43, but I am enjoying it this time! This is the closest thing to a perfect Long Jing I could imagine.

We are 100% in agreement on the Superfine. At half the price of the Nonpareil, it is nearly as good.

[Jack_teachat]

Sal, you mentioned the Emperor Long Jing from Teaspring... have you tried either of the more expensive varieties which they offer, if so how do they compare to the Emperor?

[Salsero]

have you tried either of the more expensive varieties which they offer, if so how do they compare to the Emperor?

As I read it, the Emperor is the most expensive Long Jing on that site @ $47.40 per 100 grams, vs $36.50, $16.70, and $32.90. It is a really confusing layout at TeaSpring. I think they used to have one that was a notch more expensive, but that doesn't seem to be the case currently.

The Tai Ping Hou Kui is $49.20 and it is wonderful.