Puerh Shop "Official" Pu-erh Tea Topic

[AdamMY]

please no matter who is right don't say you have to pay astronomic prices for a good real pu erh. you only support cutthroat price pushers and only people with moon prices will survive.
I'm sure there are places were you can get a pu for a reasonable price without making greedy people rich.
Also i wouldn't use Taobao as reference point, maybe good pu erh traders don't even use taobao who knows. Maybe people know westerners use taobao and the prices are inflated to begin with and people who sell pu erhs in the west realistically would be crazy to tell you the prices are inflated.

Hope this isn't too much of a thread hijack, but I've seen you say similar things elsewhere on the forum. I personally feel like you have a secret vendetta out there against puerh as a tea type. I don't blame you if you don't like it, I don't like it much either, but I tend to keep stuff around for a change of pace.

Puerh has always been a less expensive tea option, and I would dare say 10 years or so ago, it was vastly below where it should have been in price as a tea product. I think you unrealistically expect that prices will drop that low ever again. The truth is now, a lot of people are drinking puerh, even more is quite a few people are drinking it young, or buying it young hoping to hold onto it. Granted while most people hands down will prefer a typical green tea or oolong tea, compared to a typical puerh.

But for about 50 dollars you can buy puerh cakes that are at least 300grams ( likely more), that most people would consider rather high quailty for a puerh. That's less than 17 cents a gram, whereas there are certain types of teas where I would be skeptical of any type of that tea offered for less than 20 cents a gram. Yancha being one, while I am not saying there are not good quality and value Yancha out there, I am saying its just basically unheard of. Heck even most green teas are likely suspect for under 20 cents a gram, ( Japanese teas oddly excepted from this statement).

So you have a lot more people buying Puerh, with a comparatively minimal increase in production (in fact I've heard about tea fields in Yunnan being torn down so they could cultivate either coffee or rubber). The price of puerh had to adjust. Yes you can often still buy puerh bings for 10USD or less, but those like most things that seem too good to be true, might be closer to weed clippings, than actual tea. Wake up the Puerh bubble is over, the price went from too low, to too high, then things have settled down a bit and are likely much closer to where they should be for today's market.

[Chip]

I am removing vendor rebuttals since this is a repeat offense and the vendor was previously notified of the rule. (however I am placing them in a non public, administrative area of TeaChat where they will be available to the vendor upon request ... or requesting member.

10. The vendors may comment in their respective topic, post rebuttals, but at this point, may not post links and should limit the post to the non sales information. TeaChat is a spam free zone, this is an experiment that I think can work with cooperation from everyone, including the vendors.

***Rebuttals by vendors*** In the event of a negative review, etc by a posting member, the vendor may request permission to post a rebuttal. They must FIRST ask me for permission! No exceptions. Rebuttals posted w/o permission will be removed from the topic.

If the vendor does not wish to join the forum, I would have to post the rebuttal for the vendor.

Regardless, the vendor should contact me either via the forum's messaging or via email at teachat@adagio.com

Vendor Topics can be removed at the discretion of a Moderator for review.

[Chip]

However I also expect that members speak from personal experience with the vendor and/or knowledge directly related to the topic discussed. Not simply second hand information.

The guidelines are posted for everyone to view under TeaVendor>Announcements>TV Guidelines

[iovetea]

please no matter who is right don't say you have to pay astronomic prices for a good real pu erh. you only support cutthroat price pushers and only people with moon prices will survive.
I'm sure there are places were you can get a pu for a reasonable price without making greedy people rich.
Also i wouldn't use Taobao as reference point, maybe good pu erh traders don't even use taobao who knows. Maybe people know westerners use taobao and the prices are inflated to begin with and people who sell pu erhs in the west realistically would be crazy to tell you the prices are inflated.

Hope this isn't too much of a thread hijack, but I've seen you say similar things elsewhere on the forum. I personally feel like you have a secret vendetta out there against puerh as a tea type. I don't blame you if you don't like it, I don't like it much either, but I tend to keep stuff around for a change of pace.

Puerh has always been a less expensive tea option, and I would dare say 10 years or so ago, it was vastly below where it should have been in price as a tea product. I think you unrealistically expect that prices will drop that low ever again. The truth is now, a lot of people are drinking puerh, even more is quite a few people are drinking it young, or buying it young hoping to hold onto it. Granted while most people hands down will prefer a typical green tea or oolong tea, compared to a typical puerh.

But for about 50 dollars you can buy puerh cakes that are at least 300grams ( likely more), that most people would consider rather high quailty for a puerh. That's less than 17 cents a gram, whereas there are certain types of teas where I would be skeptical of any type of that tea offered for less than 20 cents a gram. Yancha being one, while I am not saying there are not good quality and value Yancha out there, I am saying its just basically unheard of. Heck even most green teas are likely suspect for under 20 cents a gram, ( Japanese teas oddly excepted from this statement).

So you have a lot more people buying Puerh, with a comparatively minimal increase in production (in fact I've heard about tea fields in Yunnan being torn down so they could cultivate either coffee or rubber). The price of puerh had to adjust. Yes you can often still buy puerh bings for 10USD or less, but those like most things that seem too good to be true, might be closer to weed clippings, than actual tea. Wake up the Puerh bubble is over, the price went from too low, to too high, then things have settled down a bit and are likely much closer to where they should be for today's market.

yes i probably made a mistake, it probably was a thread hijack.
and it seems sometimes like a vendetta but pu erh just seems more like an unfair market.

1 of all I'm not an expert but it feels like pu erh production increased 10 fold in the last decade.

2 ofc 50 dollar is 17 cents per gram but i think thats a wrong way to see it, because pu erh is a much bigger mass product wich is also way cheaper than regular tea in production ( again I'm not an expert but thats what i believe)

3 people who buy it have all the risk if they want to age it, according to my publication not even experts know what exactly makes a pu erh be good at the end. Some say it must have deep astringency, some say other and other experts say well pu erhs that are now expensive were considered real bad teas back in the day.

4 Yes i just honestly believe that pu erh is a really unfair market for the consumer, it feels like a big syndicate and the prices are unreasonable high, even so its cheaper than other tea. i know its just my personal opinion and you are probably a bigger expert, but to me pu erh seems to me like its small enough market to fix the prices.

besides that pu erh is really one of the most interesting teas and i would like to explore it but i have a hard time trusting any vendor.

[iovetea]

but anyway where do you buy your older sheng pu erh online?

[iovetea]

I'm thinking about giving pu another try.

[Chip]

but anyway where do you buy your older sheng pu erh online?

Best to ask this under Pu-erh since this is the TeaVendor topic for PuerhShop where we should discuss this vendor's products.

[bryan_drinks_tea]

Back On Topic:

I've ordered from Pu-erh shop in the past and didn't have any problems with them. Mind, I'm not saying everything I purchased was great, but I didn't see any obvious attempts to take advantage of me. I've even considered ordering from him recently, just to see what he has out there.

In regards to the 7542 - I have seen it before, and even to me it looked young, just from experience of looking at various sheng puerh. As for who is at fault for the whole issue, I cannot say definitively, but I suspect that both parties are involved - the seller and the buyer.

Call it a tuition cake, a lesson learned, whatever. Just know that as consumers, we have the choice of how closely we wish to look into what we buy, including contacting the seller before ordering, as well as trying to find other people who may have tried the tea, their opinions, and even if they would be willing to send a sample of the tea in question. If we run out of those options, we might want to think just how much risk we're willing to take.

[Drax]

Eh, I recommend starting with samples and judge for yourself. In my experience, Jim does a pretty good job at pricing the tea based on taste or quality (except for the ones that are wacky expensive because of the name/region).

I would generally agree with this assessment (having bought from Puerhshop on many occasions). However, I would add that you should probably ignore the vendor descriptions on that site as they seem to have nothing to do with the tea. I would highly recommend you get a sample first before buying anything but standard recipes. There are gems to be found in that catalog, but it's risky to find them by just outright purchase. Just MHO

I agree with what Bryan just said.

In addition, I've requoted above something that tenuki and I said early on in this thread, as I think these statements are quite relevant to the current discussion.

Bottom line is that I think the Puerh Shop is a great resource for tea, but caveat emptor.

[Cole]

Just wanted to leave a quick review of this vendor noting that I've had nothing but great experiences so far. 4 orders over the past year came within 3/4 days, and I've been very impressed with their homegrown MGH offerings as well as the few cakes I bought based on feedback, reviews, and samples. I haven't tasted that many cakes or bricks to be able to comment on the veracity of their older cakes (not my market) but I think they're an incredible U.S.-based source for affordable, newer cakes.

Would love to hear how seasoned Pu heads think their 2012 American Hao cakes compare to other brands (particularly Yunnan Sourcing, which I think I might try next).

[tst]

I have to say, I don't see myself ordering from Puerh Shop anymore either.

When the issue of the 1998 CNNP 7542 came up, my taste concurred with what many others found (not at advertised). When I sought information from the seller about this, I did not care for the response I received (pretty much that other vendors are just jealous and trying to ruin Puerh Shop's business).

With that same order, I purchased several cakes purported to be 2011 Dayi 7542. Since then, I've come to the conclusion that these cakes are also fakes, and the photos can be viewed in this thread ...

http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=18581

The seller claims his source for this tea stands by it as being authentic. He even consulted with several other Dayi resellers who "verified" the tea. However, the authentication label does not support this.

To my surprise (after a little push-back), Jim allowed me to return the tea for a full refund, and the tea appears to have been pulled from Puerh Shop's website. I am very glad the seller made this right, however I cannot see myself buying from this seller in the future. As much as I believe Jim is probably a good guy, I believe the issue could be that he has illegitimate, dishonest sources who are not trustworthy.

[tenuki]

To my surprise (after a little push-back), Jim allowed me to return the tea for a full refund, and the tea appears to have been pulled from Puerh Shop's website. I am very glad the seller made this right, however I cannot see myself buying from this seller in the future. As much as I believe Jim is probably a good guy, I believe the issue could be that he has illegitimate, dishonest sources who are not trustworthy.

I dunno, these are probably the same sources everyone else buys tea from - if you find a vendor who is an honest guy and that will work with you and 'make it right' - that is worth way more than trying to find a vendor that doesn't make mistakes (impossible) IMHO.

[tst]

I disagree tenuki.

For example, I know for a fact that Scott at YS only sources authetnic Dayi products ... the same cannot be said of Puerh Shop, hence they do not have the same sources. My point is that there are a number of vendors not selling fake products. I had not (and still have not) found anyone selling authentic '11 Dayi 7542 101 as of right now, and Puerh Shop was the only source I could even find selling this tea. I took a risk (knowing the risk) and it didn't work out.

As much as finding a vendor how will make it right is important, finding a vendor who doesn't have to make it right is even better. Don't get me wrong, every vendor will have issues come up (s&h problems, customs problems, lost packages, slow shipping, inaccurate orders, etc.) ... nobody is perfect. But when the problem is fake and tea falsely sold as something it is not (whether knowingly or unknowingly by the vendor or his/her sources), that can easily be avoided most of the time imo.