Yin yun vs. Yan yun


Owes its flavors to oxidation levels between green & black tea.

Yin yun vs. Yan yun

Postby TIM » Jul 1st, '09, 11:21

Yin Yun translates as "Resonance echo" & Yan Yun as "Rock echo", these are as important as feeling the Cha Qi in Puerh.

Since we are having such interesting discussions in puerh's tread regarding Cha Qi, What are your experiences on these very important elements in tasting oolong?
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Postby xuancheng » Jul 1st, '09, 12:11

音韵 is Yinyun right? and it just refers to Guanyin of Tieguanyin, no?

I always thought of the Yun as something similar to the Huigan (回感 not necessarily 回甘), and a bit different from the Chaqi.

Perhaps the Yanyun is a combination of the Chaqi as well as the long lasting aftertaste. I think the 晚甘侯 ‘lord of long lasting sweetness' has been used to eulogize Wuyi teas since the Song.

I guess I am not too sure exactly what each of these terms is referring to, although I may have a rough idea.

Once after a day of intense Yancha shopping, I actually had olfactory hallucinations. I could suddenly taste the Yanyun again after hours of not having consumed any tea. It was very vivid and real, not like a reminiscence, but as if in the middle of a tea session.
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Postby orguz » Jul 1st, '09, 13:12

xuancheng wrote:音韵 is Yinyun right? and it just refers to Guanyin of Tieguanyin, no?



If this is being discussed than I must say that the " Yin Yun " for hi fired TGY is most enjoyable, it is hard to find words to describe the aftertaste, and does " Yun " also mean " rhyme " referring to a lingering repetitive occurrence.

The Yun is noticed in the back of the throat mostly in my case, accompanied by this weird sour bite, these last words might be doing TGY a disservice, feel free using your tasting notes to describe TGY yun.
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Postby gingkoseto » Jul 1st, '09, 13:18

I though yin yun is the "yun" of tie guan yin and rock yun is the "yun" of rock tea (yan cha).

But I never figure out how to establish some quantitative standards for "yun" and "chi" - or quantitative standards are too unromantic :P

"chi" could be explained in different ways, even regular air is "chi" as well. So I never figure out what people mean about "chi" in tea and if different people are talking about the same thing. I love it when I sip some oolong (especially dan cong and rock tea) and close my mouth immediately, then I will feel strong flavor/fragrance rushing through my nose. But I don't know if this counts as "chi". When I describe the nose feeling to my friend, his response is, "are you talking about tea drinking or weed smoking?" :P
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Postby Janine » Jul 1st, '09, 22:03

xuancheng wrote:Once after a day of intense Yancha shopping, I actually had olfactory hallucinations. I could suddenly taste the Yanyun again after hours of not having consumed any tea. It was very vivid and real, not like a reminiscence, but as if in the middle of a tea session.


Actually, I have had this experience myself. During a discussion of this phenomenon at Tea Gallery one day, I decided that it must be related to the way our brain memory functions and the way taste (and perhaps smell) triggers memory. Sometimes when you drink tea with many notes in it, you immediately associate - for example - the specific fruit taste in a particular Phoenix oolong, and the image of the fruit appears in my mind at least (even if I can't name it!). I decided that what was happening was a kind of stirring of memory in the mind through the chemistry of taste. So, whatever that place in the mind that stored the experience of the taste was, we somehow re-experience it so that it feels as if it is happening in the present time. I don't know why but tea seems capable of doing this - of re-asserting that moment of taste so that it feels present-time, like you are experiencing it at that moment. I'm not explaining well, so it's confusing but that was the explanation I started to think might fit

Maybe this is why tea so lends itself to the contemplative (and so many contemplative types enjoy the experience of tea)... it is like a mechanism that calls out metaphor, and brings up associations in the mind. I believe it works this way chemically, given the experiences we're comparing. It's like poetry of taste and memory.
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Postby xuancheng » Jul 1st, '09, 23:53

Janine wrote:I'm not explaining well, so it's confusing but that was the explanation I started to think might fit.


I think you are doing a great job considering the subject.

I have also experienced vivid 'taste recollections' with a Dongding oolong which was relatively heavily oxidized. It had many different points in it's flavour profile which corresponded to mulled apple cider which my father made when I was young. Drinking the tea brought back vivid 'taste memories.'

This 'taste recollection' to me was quite different from the 'taste flashback' of Yanyun as I hadn't had any tea in hours, and was not doing anything but reclining in bed. Suddenly I could taste the yun again very vividly. The 'taste recollection' seemed to be more in the mind as you described, the 'taste flashback' was in the nose, mouth and throat and seemed a lot more 'real.'
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Postby Janine » Jul 2nd, '09, 00:20

Thanks. Actually, what I was trying to describe was a similar experience to the "flashback" but I conjecture that maybe it was the mind revisiting a memory - although the experience was as if it were happening.

So - you are tasting, smelling, feeling but it is something the brain is re-experiencing so that in that moment it feels like the present and not the past. I think it's a strange chemical "recollection" only we feel like it is happening at the present moment.
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Postby sriracha » Jul 2nd, '09, 07:55

Janine wrote:Sometimes when you drink tea with many notes in it, you immediately associate - for example - the specific fruit taste in a particular Phoenix oolong, and the image of the fruit appears in my mind at least (even if I can't name it!)



When I smell the dry leaves of a particular black tea I have I immediately think 'grapes', but I've no idea what makes me make the association since I can't really place the smell at all 0_o

I made my co-workers some TGY yesterday and both of them had different experiences from mine regarding the scent of the tea...lilacs and some flower the guy didn't know the name of but the way he reacted you could tell he had a vivid asssociation.

Comparing experiences like that is very interesting.
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Postby xuancheng » Jul 2nd, '09, 09:20

I was wondering if anyone could notice similarities between the yinyun of a green TGY and a high fire TGY.
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Postby TIM » Jul 2nd, '09, 10:41

xuancheng wrote:I was wondering if anyone could notice similarities between the yinyun of a green TGY and a high fire TGY.


I think the Yin Yun from a TGY are mostly from fresh, light style. I always associate the "Yin" as sort of a delicate, feminine quality of the Anxi. A high fired TGY transform that to a Masculine, pronounce "return aftertaste".

The cool thing I've experience about the Yan Yun is, it is not limited to oolong from Wuyi YanCha. I've tasted Anxi, Taiwan and Chiu Jao (DC) oolong which also carries Yan Yun. As long as the tea are grown in higher elevation and on rocks.
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Postby Janine » Jul 2nd, '09, 18:16

sriracha wrote:
When I smell the dry leaves of a particular black tea I have I immediately think 'grapes', but I've no idea what makes me make the association since I can't really place the smell at all 0_o



See, I find this very interesting. What I am wondering - or guessing - is that it's possible there is a biochemical component that is similar or also found in grapes. The chemicals work on our minds and our minds do the associating.
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Postby chrl42 » Jul 5th, '09, 03:54

I love that hallucination.

I felt that only comes from high-quality teas.

It's like when I sip Yiwu, I see one sunny spring day passin by

Another day I drank Tai Ping Hou Kui, there was no sun yet misty mountain I was walking to summit, at early morning.

You don't have to pay $$ to visit holy mountains, sometimes it just stays in my cup. :)
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