EGCG in cooked Pu'erh vs. raw


One of the intentionally aged teas, Pu-Erh has a loyal following.

EGCG in cooked Pu'erh vs. raw

Postby Var » Jul 8th, '09, 10:04

Hi all,

I prefer cooked Pu'erh to raw, but I also want the full load of catechins, particularly epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG).

So my question is: Which type generally has more EGCG, raw or cooked?

I really find cooked tastes better, more woody or soily, whereas raw smell smoky as I've experienced it so far.

Thanks for any info.
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Postby shogun89 » Jul 8th, '09, 11:19

I myself really dont know, but I would be willing to bet that raw contains much more as it is less processed.
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Postby Dizzwave » Jul 8th, '09, 12:48

Looks like Shogun is right. A quick Google search yielded this:

Mar 25, 2009 ... During pu-erh tea fermentation, the catechin content was reduced compared to green tea and black tea (21) and ECG, EGCG, and EC were almost ...

pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf804000y
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Postby shogun89 » Jul 8th, '09, 13:37

I would assume raw puerh is the best tea for you period since it is the least processed, maocha is nothing but sun dried leaves. Except for matcha of course, where you take down the whole leaf :)
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Postby Var » Jul 8th, '09, 14:07

Dizzwave wrote:
pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf804000y


I tried finding the conclusion that article but I can't find the full version anywhere.
Do you have any other source?
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Postby Dizzwave » Jul 8th, '09, 16:33

Nope, sorry... That's what I saw in Google's summary of the document, but when I went to the site, they wouldn't let me view the whole doc either!
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Postby Drax » Jul 8th, '09, 17:16

Hrm, well no luck here either, even though I'm a member of ACS.

If you were on a university campus, you'd most likely be able to see it. Of course, then again you could just go to the chemistry/agricultural library and look it up physically (:
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Postby silverneedles » Jul 8th, '09, 17:47

Image
C.-H. Lu, L.S. Hwang / Food Chemistry 111 (2008) 67–71

and ofcourse take note of the method they use:

"Preparation of tea extracts
Pu-Erh tea samples were ground into powder (30-mesh) and extracted with boiling water (1:50; w/v) for 5 min, and the aqueous extracts were filtered through Whatman No. 2 filter papers. For the analysis of flavanol and flavonol compounds, 1 ml of each aqueous extract was filtered through 0.45 lm filter prior to the HPLC analysis."

does not mean whatever they measure ends up in your bloodstream, ....anyway,

and you can see in the range, some of the fermented pu samples contains high numbers of flavonoids as well... = as i always like to repeat: if you dont measure the thing you have in your cup you have no idea how much flavonoids,caffeine,etc youre drinking...

but...... to keep it simple

this study shows most green puerh contains more of most flavonoids/polyphenols(incl EGCG) compared to fermented/"processed" pu

-------
M. Abe et al. / International Journal of Food Microbiology 124 (2008) 199-203

this one is a study of 50 days for what fungi grow on the puh in one poo warehouse

Image
dont know what they're measuring but the "equivalent concentration of tannic acid" decreases with more time of fermentation.

-------
theres this one i dont have:

Lin, J. K., Lin, C. L., Liang, Y. C., Lin-Shiau, S. Y., & Juan, I. M.
(1998). Survey of catechins, gallic acid, and methyl xanthines in
green, oolong, pu-erh, and black teas. Journal of Agriculture and
Food Chemistry, 46, 3635–3642.

but doesnt say if theyre using green and processed puerh
-------

ps. i dont "support" the "tea for health" or the "i drink green/rooibos tea because it has 1000 times more EGCG particles than black tea" stand (i am for healthy behavior for health) ... but whatever tickles your pickles.
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Postby wyardley » Jul 8th, '09, 19:08

silverneedles wrote:ps. i dont "support" the "tea for health" or the "i drink green/rooibos tea because it has 1000 times more EGCG particles than black tea" stand (i am for healthy behavior for health) ... but whatever tickles your pickles.


Seconding this. Drink the tea you like, and don't worry about the minute differences in whatever the latest magic pill is.
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Postby shogun89 » Jul 8th, '09, 19:17

agreed, health benefits are just a bonus, I drink it because I love it.
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Postby Var » Jul 8th, '09, 21:15

Thanks for the table!

From a health perspective, I would note that we Americans have high rates of several kinds of cancer and so to a certain extent I think it behooves us get on a regimen of consuming things that prevent cancer and avoiding stuff that causes it.

Since I like Puerh a lot this just means I'm going to have to find a raw form that tastes similar to cooked.
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Postby wyardley » Jul 8th, '09, 21:31

Var wrote:From a health perspective, I would note that we Americans have high rates of several kinds of cancer and so to a certain extent I think it behooves us get on a regimen of consuming things that prevent cancer and avoiding stuff that causes it.


You should change 'things that prevent cancer' to 'things that may help to reduce the risk of cancer' (emphasis mine).

There are a lot of things you can do that might help reduce the liklihood you'll get certain types of cancer. But for every study out there that claims thing XYZ will prevent cancer, there's another saying it won't.

The problem is that Americans want to have it all - they want to eat unhealthy food, live under power lines, and then consume some magic pill that will fix everything. I think taking a holistic approach makes more sense than assuming your consumption of [whatever] is going to make much difference here.
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Postby Var » Jul 8th, '09, 22:15

wyardley wrote:
The problem is that Americans want to have it all - they want to eat unhealthy food, live under power lines, and then consume some magic pill that will fix everything.


Sounds to me like your describing yourself there, and projecting your own faults onto others.
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Postby silverneedles » Jul 8th, '09, 22:26

you're using faulty reverse psychology on the wrong person, brah

and

wyardley is correct. if you check stats America's problems (cancer, diabetes, heart disease) are due to:
#1 = SMOKING -> cancer, heart disease.
and being FAT from EATING too much (including too much "crap").

people dont exercise, dont eat right, but they want diet this diet that, and so on. patch things afterwards. prevention is not a priority.
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Postby oldmanteapot » Jul 8th, '09, 23:00

wyardley wrote:
silverneedles wrote:ps. i dont "support" the "tea for health" or the "i drink green/rooibos tea because it has 1000 times more EGCG particles than black tea" stand (i am for healthy behavior for health) ... but whatever tickles your pickles.


Seconding this. Drink the tea you like, and don't worry about the minute differences in whatever the latest magic pill is.


shogun89 wrote:agreed, health benefits are just a bonus, I drink it because I love it.


I suppose I can "third" this? ahaha... yeah... I drink tea because I love drinking it too. I believe the key in leading a healthy diet is moderation. You can eat almost anything desirable to you, but eat them in moderation. Exercise regularly.

I for one, can testify that drinking tea doesn't slim you down. It's how you react and respond while / after drinking tea that matters. I added on weight after started drinking tea. This is because I get hungry faster and ate more than my body could burn off!

Cheers!
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