EGCG in cooked Pu'erh vs. raw


One of the intentionally aged teas, Pu-Erh has a loyal following.

Postby MarshalN » Jul 8th, '09, 23:39

Var wrote:From a health perspective, I would note that we Americans have high rates of several kinds of cancer and so to a certain extent I think it behooves us get on a regimen of consuming things that prevent cancer and avoiding stuff that causes it.


I think another way to think about it is not so much how you can consume more things that will help prevent cancer, but rather, how you can consume less things that will cause cancer in the first place, and there are loads....

I think the latter approach is probably more efficient than the former.
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Postby wyardley » Jul 9th, '09, 01:28

Var wrote:
wyardley wrote:
The problem is that Americans want to have it all - they want to eat unhealthy food, live under power lines, and then consume some magic pill that will fix everything.


Sounds to me like your describing yourself there, and projecting your own faults onto others.


How so?
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Postby betta » Jul 9th, '09, 01:49

wyardley wrote:
Var wrote:
wyardley wrote:
The problem is that Americans want to have it all - they want to eat unhealthy food, live under power lines, and then consume some magic pill that will fix everything.


Sounds to me like your describing yourself there, and projecting your own faults onto others.


How so?


I don't think it necessarily so.
I mean honestly almost everyone dream on eating delicious high caloric/fat food without having to put so many effort to get rid of the side effects.
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Postby yee » Jul 9th, '09, 02:56

I feel like i want to post this piece of study in here. It is not totelly related to the subject, but it is also about how chemicals in ripe and row puerh behave during wet and dry storage. I really find this one interesting/

"Study on Quality Variation of Puerh一Tea During Storage

Liang Ming-zhi, Xia Li-fei, Chen Lin-bo, Fang Cheng-gang, Sun Rong-qin, Duan
Zhi-fen, Yang Sheng-mei, Chen Ji-wei
(Tea Research Institute, Yunnan Academy of Agricultural Sciences, Menghai 666201)
Abstract: With sensory evaluation and physical and chemical analysis, quality of
Puerh-tea ,which were stored in dry and damp storehouse for 2 years, were studied. Results
showed that:(1) Contents of polyphenols and amino acids decreased, while those of
theabrownin(TB) and water increased with the time of storage.(2) Caffeine contents in
fermented Puerh-tea which were stored in dry or damp storehouse increased, but thoese of
non-fermented Puerh-tea decreased in dry storehouse, increased in damp storehouse .(3)
Contents of theaflavins(TF) thearubigins(TR), and water extracts of non-fermented
Puerh-tea raised in dry storehouse and reduced in damp storehouse, while that of caffeine
increased in damp and decreased in dry.(4) Components of Puerh-tea great varied in damp,
but the quality of Puerh-tea was inferior to that in dry storehouse. In the same condition,the
variation of non-fermented was greater than that of fermentated Puerh- tea.
It is better to
store Puerh-tea in dry storehouse to the destinated time."
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Postby Sam. » Jul 9th, '09, 03:23

Var wrote:Since I like Puerh a lot this just means I'm going to have to find a raw form that tastes similar to cooked.


I think the point everyone is trying to make is that you shouldn't need to worry about shu vs. sheng or raw vs. cooked pu-erh that you drink. Both are healthy drinks and the fact that one might contain X % more antioxidants on average doesn't in the least make the other unhealthy.

Just as everyone's mentioned, drinking tea can help support your best health but it can only play a small role in what needs to be a more larger, broader effort to live a healthy lifestyle. And more and more research is showing that an individual's attitude plays just as large a role in their health outcomes as what they eat and drink or how much they exercise. I feel like analyzing every piece of possible information about what tea you drink and drying to get the one with the highest possible antioxidant content is probably adding unnecessary, unhealthy stress to your tea-drinking experience.

For me, tea is a small but very enjoyable part of my healthy lifestyle. I am pescetarian (vegetarian but also eat fish), I rarely eat dairy, my diet is 80% vegetables, fruits, and beans/daals, I exercise regularly, and I keep a peaceful and calm mindset and try to avoid creating a stressful environment around me. Tea is just another healthy food I consume and also helps me to relax. I drink what teas I like. (It just so happens that all teas I like are lightly processed - greens, whites, and raw pu-erhs.)
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Postby Var » Jul 9th, '09, 06:31

silverneedles wrote:people dont exercise, dont eat right, but they want diet this diet that, and so on. patch things afterwards. prevention is not a priority.


Yes, we're all disgusted by the American lifestyle, but
1. you're discounting environmental causes of cancer.
2. you're assuming that non-Americans don't make the same error of eating badly and then seeking out a pill, but the truth is they do.

I've met three Americans who personally experienced cancer. Two from early exposure to DDT as a kids, the third didn't know from what but everyone on her street got it and they lived diverse lifestyles. No blame there...

I've lived overseas and I can tell you for a fact, non-Americans commit the same mistake of believing they can live very unhealthily and then fix it with a pill or an occasional push-up.

Yet you dump on Americans? Seems imbalanced to me. Maybe you have some agenda, or need to feel better about yourself so you dump on others.
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Postby Var » Jul 9th, '09, 06:34

Sam. wrote:[quote="Var"
Just as everyone's mentioned, drinking tea can help support your best health but it can only play a small role in what needs to be a more larger, broader effort to live a healthy lifestyle.


I never suggested that a more general approach was something I personally avoided or disliked. So why is "everyone" claiming that?

I think someone was jumping to that conclusion because he himself felt guilty about his own lifestyle, or needing to project his own mistakes onto others.
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Postby silverneedles » Jul 9th, '09, 07:56

Everyone here has an agenda.

We are shilling for Adagio's teas.

We are agents of the tea underground.

We are the tea mafia.
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Postby tony shlongini » Jul 9th, '09, 09:16

If it were conclusively demonstrated that drinking tea is bad for you, I would continue to drink it, although I would probably monitor my overall consumption. Fortunately, I don't have to give that a thought. That tea is probably the healthiest, or at least the most benign, product I put in my body is a mere side benefit. There are items that are clearly unhealthy that may still be responsibly incorporated into a healthy lifestyle. There's a world of difference between enjoying a bottle of Latour with dinner at Taillevent and sucking a bottle of Ripple on the Bowery. Cigarettes? They're responsible for more disease than any other product, yet an occasional cigar or pipe won't detract much from an overall healthy lifestyle. Tea is good for you. The tea you choose to drink should the one you enjoy drinking the most, not the one with the best specifications.

Var: As an aside, I can't help but notice that some of your posts are a bit confrontational, and you seem to be looking for a fight where none exists. You might want to lighten up on the armchair psychology a bit. I have neither the authority nor desire to tell you what to do, nor would I presume to tell the administrators here how to run this fine forum, but I am on another site with a large pu'er section where I can assure you such effrontery would not be tolerated, especially from someone with less than ten posts.
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Postby Sam. » Jul 9th, '09, 13:58

silverneedles wrote:Everyone here has an agenda.

We are shilling for Adagio's teas.

We are agents of the tea underground.

We are the tea mafia.


This thread is.. funny. And you got it all wrong silverneedles. We're all just poor, delusional souls who feel guilty about our indulgent, hedonistic lifestyles and we all are desperately trying to project our wretched souls onto this poor sap.

On a more serious note, I have no personal qualms about my lifestyle. I am extremely happy with who I am as an individual. And I wasn't telling you that you don't lead a generally healthy lifestyle, I can't possibly know that. All I was saying is that you had made it sound like it's extremely important that you choose the most "healthy" tea and that I think that that's not necessary or helpful.
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Postby Sam. » Jul 9th, '09, 14:03

tony shlongini wrote:There's a world of difference between enjoying a bottle of Latour with dinner at Taillevent and sucking a bottle of Ripple on the Bowery.


The former, I would love to do. The latter, well, I'm assuming Ripple is similar to the magnificent box of Franzia. :lol:
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