Is this a Chawan?


Discussion on virtually any teaware related item.

Re: Is this a Chawan?

Postby shyrabbit » Aug 18th, '09, 15:40

To quote R..."I have heard that many of the tea masters in Kyoto refused to use Raku Kichizaemon's chawan for a number of years as it was thought to be not fitting of the tradition from which it came."
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I've also heard that Raku Kichizaemon was not interested in continuing the tradition and had to be convinced to which he reluctantly acquiesced. This might explain his non-traditional approach.

Michael
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Re: Is this a Chawan?

Postby Robert Fornell » Aug 18th, '09, 16:36

Interesting point Michael and if true does not surprise me as the expectation to carry on a 400 - 500 year tradition such as Raku must be daunting, an understatement but for a lack of better term I use it, to say the least. I do know that Kichizaemon studied sculture at Geidai before heading off to Italy to work for a number of years. Not uncommon as well as in Japan with people of lineage, the bird does want a bit of freedom before returning to it's cage as it were. He recently built a small house/studio an hour or so outside of Kyoto as a place to refresh and work away from the family shop with all of it's traditions and history.
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Re: Is this a Chawan?

Postby woozl » Aug 18th, '09, 17:31

This is a great thread.
Check out about this puppy at weighing in just shy of 11" :shock:
http://www.trocadero.com/magokorodo/ite ... store.html

Sorry not sure how to post a photo that's not flickered. :?:
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Re: Is this a Chawan?

Postby Robert Fornell » Aug 19th, '09, 11:46

This is a great thread.
Check out about this puppy at weighing in just shy of 11"
http://www.trocadero.com/magokorodo/ite ... store.html


Thanks for sharing that with us woozl.

Here's a link featuring, like the link you posted, Oni Hagi ware this time done by Miwa Kyusetsu XI otherwise known as Miwa Jyusetsu. I find these pieces extremely powerful, yet full of delicate nuance. As I mentioned in a previous post, some of Miwa-sensei's chawan are so large they almost become sculptural in feel......

http://www.nihon-kogeikai.com/KOKUHO-E/ ... HIN-E.html
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Re: Is this a Chawan?

Postby bonjiri » Aug 20th, '09, 15:15

is this a chawan ?

Image

4 inches wide. chasen shown to show scale.
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Re: Is this a Chawan?

Postby shyrabbit » Aug 20th, '09, 18:06

C,

Yes, this is a chawan...what might be the size range for chasen?

Michael
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Re: Is this a Chawan?

Postby chamekke » Aug 20th, '09, 21:41

shyrabbit wrote:Yes, this is a chawan...what might be the size range for chasen?


Some of them get pretty big...

Image

Image
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Re: Is this a Chawan?

Postby shyrabbit » Aug 21st, '09, 12:15

I love these images...It seems the generally accepted size requirements that "define" a chawan don't neccessarily exist(?). I'm beginning to understand that the proper size for a chawan can range greatly and the "Rule-of-thumb requirements" define only the mid-point of the range.

Any thought?

Michael
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Re: Is this a Chawan?

Postby miginaustria » Aug 21st, '09, 12:44

How about the teaware in the "ippukuwan" category? I have noticed a few at artisticnippon and at zencha.net. What is the history and concept behind this classification? They are more or less the size of nodate chawan it seems to me, so they could probably be used as chawan.
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Re: Is this a Chawan?

Postby Maitre_Tea » Aug 21st, '09, 14:27

wow, that looks like matcha done texas-style
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Re: Is this a Chawan?

Postby bonjiri » Aug 22nd, '09, 14:02

shyrabbit wrote:C,

Yes, this is a chawan...what might be the size range for chasen?

Michael


michael

aloha

yy, this is a nodate chawan with normal sized chasen. there is a nodate chasen, i'm going to bring back some when i head to japan soon. nodate tea is tea out in the forest, park etc. like 'location' tea. there is a portable chawan, chaire and chashaku (even folding ones). its a small compact kit if u will.

the regular sized chasen is much too large to function well with the nodate sized chawan.

fun !

chadougu are endless. there are so many pieces, so little time.

take care.

i've seen the large chawan/chasen. the chasen is made specially for this large chawan. i'm glad someone posted a photo of it. i have one, but its not being used/display. this tea ceremony is done one a year .

interesting. when i first started ceramics, my first inspiration/sensei was the amazing work of kato tokuro. second, i was blessed in meeting my tea sensei. naoko shinzato. during the early years, many 'tea' folks that 'studied' tea would tell me about this chawan is too large, etc. blah blah. these 'students' didn't really know.

after handling pieces from raku chojiro, raku kichizaemon, kaneshige toyo, harada shuroku, kato tokuro, kato takahiro and kakurezaki ryuichi and seeing countless teaware/chadougu in museums, i have come to the humble realization that there is no limitations. of course, if the piece lacks a koudai its difficult for a chawan to function as a matcha jawan. interesting note though, kakurezaki has a series of 'melon' shaped , pinchpot chawan that feature a 'innie', tapped in koudai, but there is a small finger hold designed/carved in to the koudai to allow the chawan to be turned upside down and emptied for otemae.

common sense tea is functionality.

i've seen raku kichizaemon's chawan with an 'innie koudai' too. i'll post some pics from his book.

Image

wild

aloha all ! keep up the interesting questions. this is a cool thread. thanks michael

cheers
cory
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Re: Is this a Chawan?

Postby shyrabbit » Dec 28th, '13, 16:38

Hi All,
Is anyone interested in restarting this thread?

Michael
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Re: Is this a Chawan?

Postby Senchamatcha » Dec 28th, '13, 23:54

shyrabbit wrote:Hi All,
Is anyone interested in restarting this thread?

Michael


yes please!
I have a basic understanding of what a chawan is or is not, and what to look for if you intend to use it to practice tea ceremony (I wont buy a chawan if it doesn't, even though I don't really "practice" tea ceremony). But it is nice to see input from other people including our resident potter friends :mrgreen:

I shall read this whole thread tomorrow, right now I need to go to sleep :roll:
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Re: Is this a Chawan?

Postby JBaymore » Dec 29th, '13, 00:10

bonjiri wrote:common sense tea is functionality.


So desu, cory-san. Very true.

best,

................john
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Re: Is this a Chawan?

Postby Senchamatcha » Dec 31st, '13, 21:35

Does anyone have a "strict" definition of chawan?
Before I bought my first chawan I did a lot of research, what kept the chasen in good shape (I destroyed my first $20-30 one in a soup bowl), what style was easiest to whisk the tea in without splashing, and other information. But does anyone have an actual definition of the shape and what not for a chawan?
If you stare at enough photos of Chawan you can tell the difference between matchawan and rice bowl chawan.
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