why are westerners not attracted completely to green tea


Made from leaves that have not been oxidized.

Postby Phyll » Mar 1st, '06, 16:57

Let me correct myself above...

Phyll wrote:I didn't say tea from teabags is detrimental to your health like Big Mac or Fries are (if you eat them often).


Drinking low quality tea is generally detrimental to your joints in the long term. I can't define the meaning of "low quality" in this case, however. I was advised by a knowledgable chinese medicine practitioner (my martial arts master in Asia, actually). This is a "take it or leave it" advise from me. Sorry...no hard proof offered.

Phyll wrote:High quality liquor is safer than homemade moonshine


If the home moonshine maker knows what s/he's doing, it's fine! Otherwise, say goodbye to your liver and eyes.
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Postby yresim » Mar 1st, '06, 17:39

Phyll wrote:If the home moonshine maker knows what s/he's doing, it's fine! Otherwise, say goodbye to your liver and eyes.

You can save both when encountering methanol poisoning if you follow it up with vodka or another hard liquor of known quality immediately after you notice symptoms. Of course, you should still call 911, but the vodka will help keep you alive (and avoid permanent damage) until help arrives. Make sure the medical team knows that you started experiencing these issues before the vodka, so they don't think you're just drunk.

Of course, that requires recognizing methanol poisoning for what it is. Which is the real problem. Visual symptoms are the most obvious. Nausea & abdominal pain without euphoria (or without drinking enough alcohol to normally result in those symptoms) are also good indicators.

The problem occurs when someone drinks so much that they would have these symptoms even if it was ethanol. Then it can be hard to tell until it is too late.

~Yresim~
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Postby procarel » Mar 1st, '06, 18:04

I personally prefer green and white teas. We have friends in England that all (except for their son ) like stout black tea. Tea with timbre is how they describe it. When we visited them this past summer I took along some of my favorite green tea for them to try. It was Emerald Cloud green tea. You should have seen the expressions on their faces. It was as if they were sipping castor oil. They could not get a cup down. I don't think that I will ever get them "converted" to green tea. ha! It's a good thing tea comes in so many varieties. There is truly something for everyone.
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Postby garden gal » Mar 1st, '06, 18:06

This is good to know- need to get the bottle of vodka that has been stored in the cupboard (was always going to make transparent soap with it) out and near the drum of methanol sitting outside. Actually we had been experimenting with making biodiesel this past summer and I have been a little paranoid about the methanol being around.
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Postby yresim » Mar 1st, '06, 18:30

garden gal wrote:Actually we had been experimenting with making biodiesel this past summer and I have been a little paranoid about the methanol being around.

Try a small amount, and wait a few hours to see if there are any symptoms. Make sure to keep the vodka & the phone handy.

That's what my dad used to do when he made his own hard cider.

'Course that was before he went blind & lost his liver. J/k. He's just not supposed to drink hard alcohol anymore because of his heart. His eyes & liver are fine.

Actually, methanol is relatively rare as long as you are using high-quality equipment & ingredients. The most common cause of methanol poisoning is the maker adding "extra" ingredients (like denatured alcohol & methanol) to the moonshine in an attempt to expedite the production. So you are far safer when making your own than you are when buying it from someone else.

Of course, it is still a risk, and it is up to you whether or not you want to take that risk. IMO, if you use good equipment, making your own alcohol is no more dangerous than going driving (I would never buy it from someone else). But I encourage you to educate yourself, and make up your own mind.

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Postby Cyphre » Mar 1st, '06, 19:48

About the loose leaf vs the tea bag. Theres a few sites out there that talk about it.. Not 100% sure but try this one. I am at work so I can't spend my time looking thru it.

http://pages.ripco.net/~c4ha2na9/tea/faq.html

It's just common sense too. I mean paper it just wood/sawdust held together with chemicals and glue and bleached to make it white. All of which end up in your tea when you put it in water. Not only is it not very good for you but also adds a taste to the tea. Also, the companies that make the tea in the tea bags are out to make a profit. They are not going to be using the best stuff to begin with. So basicly almost all tea in the bags is a mix of a bunch of diffrent cheap tea to give it a "non-cheap" taste. Then they ground up the tea. This is the worst part and the part that adds to most to the unhealthy aspects of tea. With it being ground all the tanins and other things in the leaf come out. This accounts for the slightly bitter to very bitter taste that can come from it. Next is the age of the tea itself. Since they are created in bulk there is no way to know how old the tea you bought in the supermarket is. Also the staple holding the tea bag closed and the string attached. Anyways, non of this makes a huge impact. Still though they all leave the tea bag tea with a lesser quality taste to it.

I am by no means a tea expert and I could be wrong but thats how I see it.
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Re: why are westerners not attracted completely to green tea

Postby cherryking » Feb 5th, '07, 04:35

markwb wrote:obviously more recently westerners are becoming more aware of the potential health benefits of green tea. thus making it more available in markets other than the asian market.

however even though this is true, a very small oercentage of green tea is consumed outside the asian market. what is it that westerners arent relating to, is it the flavours?, the packaging? the health benefits are consistently being pointed out, what is it that makes it less popular than black tea ?


It has many reasons. I think it attributes to tea drinking history. Black tea has more than 200 years history for trade, business and taste. It can be add milk, sugar to black tea, taste is good.

I asked some westerners this questions, they told to me that American do not like the bitterness of green tea. Although some tell me they like green tea, a lot of westerners do not like the taset of green tea. If we put sugar or milk into green tea liquid, the taste would be a disaster.
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Postby TeaFanatic » Feb 5th, '07, 12:32

Most westerners just don't know the difference between bagged and loose green tea, and for those who do know what loose green tea is, many don't know how to steep it correctly.

Those who have figured out the wonders of loose tea have a responsibility to spread the word and help others understand the wonders of tea.
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Postby expatCanuck » Feb 5th, '07, 13:11

Re: why are westerners not attracted completely to green tea?

Hmmmmm. Well, I enjoy white, oolong & black tea. A lot. Definitely not a fan of Earl Grey, nor of Jasmine (unless it's subtle -- #12 is way too 'perfumey' for me).

But, for this westerner, the scent of every adagio.com green tea I've tried makes me gag.

There's one exception -- white monkey, which I really think belongs in the white tea section, 'cause that's sure what it tastes like to me (and numerous reviewers seem to agree).

- Richard
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Postby Guilow » Feb 5th, '07, 13:15

Great thread!

I'm one of those westerners who use to think that all greens tasted like grass. Wow, was I wrong. I now drink a ton of green teas, and green oolongs. I actually prefer them, but enjoy a good black wake-up tea.

Why don't more westerners drink green tea? I think everyone has nailed it when they say that it's simply a by-product of (1) bad tea (bags), (2) comfort/experience level, and (3) ignorance. It's like asking my daughter to try some new foods. She'll say "I don't like it" without, of course, ever trying it. :D
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Postby expatCanuck » Feb 5th, '07, 13:42

Guilow wrote:Why don't more westerners drink green tea? ... it's simply a by-product of (1) bad tea ...
(2) comfort/experience level ....
(3) ignorance ...


Hmmm again.

Re: 1 - Can someone recommend a green tea that they consider good (from a quality & taste perspective), from their vendor of choice?

I've tried adagio's gyokuro & dragonwell -- the scent of both literally make me gag. Don't mind hojicha. And do others here think adagio's White Monkey is correctly classified as a green?

Re: 2/3 - As far as comfort, experience & ignorance go ... I like many white, oolong, black & pu-erh teas. Good beer & wine. Much hard liquor (tho' definitely not tequila). Diet cola, Root Beer, & Ginger Ale. Roast chicken, roast beef or a good burger. Middle East, Spanish, Mexican, Japanese, Chinese, Thai, Vietnamese & Indian cuisine.

But green tea -- yeccchh. So I suspect that there might be something more to it than comfort, experience &/or ignorance ... .

- Richard
(whose son, without coaxing, has loved raw red peppers & steamed green beans from day 1, loves rice but is potato-averse.)

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Postby guitarfreak2641 » Feb 5th, '07, 18:11

expatCanuck, The white monkey is a green tea. It is very light but its still a green. And with the gyokuro & dragonwell, you might be making them wrong. what temp are you making them at?
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Postby expatCanuck » Feb 5th, '07, 21:11

guitarfreak2641 wrote:expatCanuck, The white monkey is a green tea. It is very light but its still a green. And with the gyokuro & dragonwell, you might be making them wrong. what temp are you making them at?


> the white monkey is a green tea.
So it seems. But it tastes worlds apart from the Japanese greens (in a good way) and, to me, close to Silver Needle. Perhaps I should try other Chinese (as opposed to Japanese) greens?

> what temp are you making [the gyokuro & dragonwell] at?
When the pot just starts to make noise. Very gentle wisps of steam. Have a kitchen thermometer on order - my current one's recently showed itself to be less than accurate.

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Postby Chip » Feb 5th, '07, 22:26

I am sure if you had a fresh quality Japanese sencha or Dragon Well prepared properly, you would not GAG...

Japanese tea is not the easiest tea to prepare, but with a little practice it can be addictive...though I admit it is not everyone's cuppa...Gyokuro is even more challenging. Sencha is much easier to prepare and generally more liked.

Dragon well, aka long jing or lung ching preparation will vary by type...and there are pretty many grades available. But dragon well is the most favorite tea in all of China...so, I think either something is wrong with either your tea, your preparation or both.
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Postby expatCanuck » Feb 6th, '07, 19:33

chip wrote:I am sure if you had a fresh quality Japanese sencha or Dragon Well prepared properly, you would not GAG...

Japanese tea is not the easiest tea to prepare, but with a little practice it can be addictive...though I admit it is not everyone's cuppa...Gyokuro is even more challenging. Sencha is much easier to prepare and generally more liked.

Dragon well, aka long jing or lung ching preparation will vary by type...and there are pretty many grades available. But dragon well is the most favorite tea in all of China...so, I think either something is wrong with either your tea, your preparation or both.


Well ... tried a 2 minute infusion of Dragonwell today, with water from a kettle that was just starting to make noise -- very faint wisps of steam. Moved from 'gagging' to 'not unpleasant' on the taste scale, which I'd say is a statistically significant jump. :wink:

So I'd say yeah, one definitely has to avoid cooking the stuff, or one gets (to my palate, anyway) a vile brew.

But it doesn't seem likely to replace my oolongs, black or white teas. Or rooibos either, for that matter.
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