DDT use


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DDT use

Postby skilfautdire » Feb 9th, '10, 23:48

Anyone know about the state of using DDT in China ?
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Re: DDT use

Postby Chip » Feb 10th, '10, 00:48

One contaminant that is still often tested for in tea from China is DDT.

I think that kind of sums it up.
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Re: DDT use

Postby tenuki » Feb 10th, '10, 03:19

Not specifically about DDT, but a recent general report from the USDA that covers the topic of contaminates and refused shipments from china pretty thoroughly...

http://www.ers.usda.gov/Publications/EIB52/EIB52.pdf

And an interesting article from the chinese perspective entitled "Pesticide regulations impair tea industry"...

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/do ... 322923.htm

The ministry also asked tea planters to reduce the use of pesticides such as HCH, DDT, Dicofol, Fenvalerate, Methamidophos and Acephate.


HCH and DDT are of course banned in the US and elsewhere, and most of the others [1][2][3][4] are controlled to some extent. Our EPA doesn't 'ask' the farmers to 'reduce' their use.

Something interesting of note is that the European Union (EU) and Japan both released new stricter pesticide standards on tea imports in the last 10 years. Got to wonder where the tea that can't enter EU and Japan is going now...

And now back to this lovely organic japanese tea. :)
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Re: DDT use

Postby gingkoseto » Feb 10th, '10, 21:01

China banned agricultural use of DDT in 1983, so are most countries in the world, I guess. DDT is still tested in many agricultural products because other pesticides contain DDT as impurity. One such example is Kelthane, which is widely used in Canada and many other countries (don't know about US) on apples, peaches and grapes. These fruits, when applied with kelthane, are of course not as good as organic ones, but as long as they don't get pesticide application too much and too close to harvest date, they are not considered dangerous. China banned kelthan in tea plantations in 2002.

It's a fact that China has a lot of problematic food products. It's also a fact that when US media describes problems of Chinese products, the problems are often exaggerated by N times and distorted by X degrees.
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Re: DDT use

Postby skilfautdire » Feb 11th, '10, 08:16

DDT might not be that bad after all. Miss Pandemonia herself (WHO) recommends covering the interior walls of houses with DDT in order to fight malaria in some countries.

As Chip mentioned, and as I've seen in one Chinese analysis on tea, DDT is part of the analysis procedure. So there is concern about it otherwise they wouldn't do that test. This being said it can very well be that the proportions are very low. But...:

"Growth of the agrochemical industry in China has been accompanied by problems related to quality control, unsafe application of chemicals, and pesticide residues. Many products are sold under the wrong name, and in some cases, banned pesticides such as DDT are sold under the name of legal pesticides. The press has covered several cases where farmers were poisoned using mislabeled products. Farmers also face the problem that the chemicals sold as pesticides may not be pesticides at all. In addition, they rarely receive training to use new products that come on the market."

from: Pesticide Action Network, May 2000

http://www.panna.org/legacy/panups/panu ... 26.dv.html

Mind you, Panna North America might be working towards protectionism of American goods by exagerating.

Miss Pandemonia and DDT:

http://minilien.com/?4ozPxdVG7W

(link shortened - AP story on Telus.com)
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Re: DDT use

Postby beecrofter » Feb 11th, '10, 10:32

(quoting Gingko)
It's a fact that China has a lot of problematic food products. It's also a fact that when US media describes problems of Chinese products, the problems are often exaggerated by N times and distorted by X degrees.[/quote]

I don't deny the sensational aspect of the news media when I consider their motivation to be the provision of a profitable template for adertising sales.

Lead in toys, melamine in milk, poison pet foods, contaminated heparin, tea does bear close watching for pesticide misuse.
I don't think 300,000 Chinese affected by melamine poisoning in milk in 2008 to be an exaggeration. Sanlu Group, to which Jinping sold the milk, knowingly sold 900 tons of toxic products.
And considering recent news the problem still exists , 170 tons of melamine adulterated milk powder were just recalled.
Recent news also indicates what happens to whistle blowers who question authority in China, Tan Zuoren was jailed for 5 years for seeking answers to the over 80,000 fatalities in the Sichuan earthquake which killed many school children.
In short tainted Chinese imports are a serious problem, tea is not exempt, and just because a pesticide is banned does not stop it's use or availability.

Buy your tea from reputable dealers, be suspect of anything even slightly off, and consider third party certification regarding organic production or pesticide residue testing. If tea can be faked for a few yuan in profit so can testing.
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Re: DDT use

Postby gingkoseto » Feb 11th, '10, 16:40

beecrofter wrote:(quoting Gingko)
It's a fact that China has a lot of problematic food products. It's also a fact that when US media describes problems of Chinese products, the problems are often exaggerated by N times and distorted by X degrees.


I don't deny the sensational aspect of the news media when I consider their motivation to be the provision of a profitable template for adertising sales.

Lead in toys, melamine in milk, poison pet foods, contaminated heparin, tea does bear close watching for pesticide misuse.
I don't think 300,000 Chinese affected by melamine poisoning in milk in 2008 to be an exaggeration. Sanlu Group, to which Jinping sold the milk, knowingly sold 900 tons of toxic products.
And considering recent news the problem still exists , 170 tons of melamine adulterated milk powder were just recalled.
Recent news also indicates what happens to whistle blowers who question authority in China, Tan Zuoren was jailed for 5 years for seeking answers to the over 80,000 fatalities in the Sichuan earthquake which killed many school children.
In short tainted Chinese imports are a serious problem, tea is not exempt, and just because a pesticide is banned does not stop it's use or availability.

Buy your tea from reputable dealers, be suspect of anything even slightly off, and consider third party certification regarding organic production or pesticide residue testing. If tea can be faked for a few yuan in profit so can testing.[/quote]
I don't see any contradiction between what you said and what I said. So I guess, we agree with each other? :P
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Re: DDT use

Postby skilfautdire » Feb 11th, '10, 19:56

A reputable dealer chummy with a lab, that is. So that independent analysis are free or cheap enough to have them made.

What will the reputable dealer do if he does not have a nose as good as Hoffmann's ? Meaning a reputable dealer established in China to start with. Not elsewhere. Trust the Chinese analysis ? Trust the people he's dealing with ? Visit the farms on a periodic basis ? I'm afraid reality settles in.

This being said, it can very well not be as bad as it first looks like. There are good efforts in China to make things better. China has the largest number of ISO9001 registrations in the past years. On the other hand it is a self-contained world where audits can very well be arranged.

Oh well, where's my good Bi Luo Chun. I like that tea. I get a good buzz out of a strong cup :-))
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