A quest for Phoenix Oolong


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A quest for Phoenix Oolong

Postby auhckw » Dec 9th, '10, 20:21

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Re: A quest for Phoenix Oolong

Postby Tead Off » Dec 9th, '10, 23:53

How much are the dancong teas at Hojo?
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Re: A quest for Phoenix Oolong

Postby auhckw » Dec 10th, '10, 02:37

I have tasted some of it before at their shop. IIRC they have 6 types. Can't remember how much.

But a dig on their price list on their website... here it is.. <cut and paste>
Image

Edit: Typo in the the picture... it is in Japanese currently. Sorry for the confusion...
Last edited by auhckw on Dec 11th, '10, 12:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A quest for Phoenix Oolong

Postby Tead Off » Dec 10th, '10, 02:52

auhckw wrote:I have tasted some of it before at their shop. IIRC they have 6 types. Can't remember how much.

But a dig on their price list on their website... here it is.. <cut and paste>
Image

I don't see any prices on their website.
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Re: A quest for Phoenix Oolong

Postby auhckw » Dec 10th, '10, 03:33

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Re: A quest for Phoenix Oolong

Postby Catfur » Dec 11th, '10, 00:01

Tead Off wrote:
auhckw wrote:I have tasted some of it before at their shop. IIRC they have 6 types. Can't remember how much.

But a dig on their price list on their website... here it is.. <cut and paste>
Image

I don't see any prices on their website.


I think that price is in yen, not RMB. 3000 RMB is $450 (for just 30 grams!!).
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Re: A quest for Phoenix Oolong

Postby gingkoseto » Dec 11th, '10, 00:25

Catfur wrote:
Tead Off wrote:
auhckw wrote:I have tasted some of it before at their shop. IIRC they have 6 types. Can't remember how much.

But a dig on their price list on their website... here it is.. <cut and paste>
Image

I don't see any prices on their website.


I think that price is in yen, not RMB. 3000 RMB is $450 (for just 30 grams!!).

I guess it's $45 not $450. But 3000 yen used to be just $30 several years ago! :(
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Re: A quest for Phoenix Oolong

Postby David R. » Dec 11th, '10, 12:34

I confirm prices are in yen. I just received these 3 dan cong, along with some puerh and teaware...

I am really looking forward to having the time to sit down and drink them properly.
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Re: A quest for Phoenix Oolong

Postby auhckw » Dec 11th, '10, 12:37

Oops... typo... it is in Japanese currency.

Sorry for the confusion...
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Re: A quest for Phoenix Oolong

Postby Proinsias » Dec 11th, '10, 16:49

If you're getting into Phoenix tea Tea Habitat is definitely worth a look

http://www.teahabitat.com/store/index.p ... tqlnnl4pu3
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Re: A quest for Phoenix Oolong

Postby Poohblah » Dec 11th, '10, 19:11

Proinsias wrote:If you're getting into Phoenix tea Tea Habitat is definitely worth a look

http://www.teahabitat.com/store/index.p ... tqlnnl4pu3

I think the OP was just sharing the article, not looking for Phoenix DC... but more DC vendors are always appreciated. I love to try different Phoenix DCs when I have time to sit down and enjoy them.
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Re: A quest for Phoenix Oolong

Postby wyardley » Dec 11th, '10, 20:25

I am no expert, but I don't believe that the bit about Fenghuang dancong and Wuyi yancha being the same varietal (and that it originally came from the Fenghuangshan area) is universally agreed upon. You can see one other take at:
http://tea-obsession.blogspot.com/2008/ ... -wuyi.html
Personally, I'm not inclined to take Hojo's word on this one, but I'd be interested to see more research backing up this statement (or, for that matter, more research backing up anyone's thoughts on this).

I don't know if anyone can prove conclusively that one came from the other, which area started making oolong style tea first, etc. But given the number of legends about this, and given that there is some debate, even among "experts", I don't know that anyone can state conclusively that they are right.

While the exact meaning of 'dancong' (either historically or in contemporary usage) is also a matter of debate*, I think the point that there are teas from the Phoenix Mountain area that are not dancong and that there may be so-called "dancong" teas (by some definitions of the term) produced elsewhere is well taken.

* viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10814
http://marshaln.xanga.com/713413274/tro ... th-a-bush/
http://camelliasinensisblog.blogspot.co ... t-dan.html
http://tea-obsession.blogspot.com/2009/ ... ng_12.html (see earlier posts around the same time, as well as the comments)
http://tea-obsession.blogspot.com/2009/ ... aking.html
etc.

[Disclaimer: I am not a historian, native Chinese speaker, or tea expert. I am not taking any sides, nor trying to revive old flamewars. Just trying to point out that there are a lot of points of view on this subject, even among folks who have been drinking and / or selling tea for quite some time]

While I have nothing but respect for all the vendors mentioned in this thread, it is unfortunate that most of the English language tea knowledge we're able to get access to comes from vendors. Even the best-intentioned vendors still have to make a living, and, conveniently, what they are selling often goes along with their point of view.
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Re: A quest for Phoenix Oolong

Postby gingkoseto » Dec 11th, '10, 22:23

I agree that it's important to be aware that many tea questions have many possible answers but don't have conclusive answers.

One frequently cited line of evidence about origin time of Dan Cong is a letter written by Su Shi, one of the most famous poets and artists in Chinese history (top 3, IMO :D), to thank his friend for his tea gift. In his time (Song dynasty), his good friend, a Chao Zhou resident sent him some Wuyi tea, which was regarded as the most precious gift at that time. This leads people to believe in Su Shi's time, Chao Zhou didn't have tea production. Otherwise, why would his friend (a tea connoisseur) send him Wuyi tea instead of Chao Zhou tea? Besides, there are many records about how Wuyi tea (not oolong yet) was adored throughout Song dynasty, but no such early record about Chao Zhou tea. Based on this, many people inferred Wuyi tea production started earlier than Chao Zhou tea.

But there can hardly be any evidence about sources of tea tree varietals. Any random Joe in Song dynasty could have pulled out a tea seedling from Guang Dong, or elsewhere, and took it to Wuyi, and that seedling could have become a famous tea tree. Did that happen? How can we know?

But anyway I don't see why that matters to tea drinking and don't see how history study can help a vendor sell tea. :wink:
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Re: A quest for Phoenix Oolong

Postby entropyembrace » Dec 11th, '10, 23:06

There is a fairly sure way to tell which varietals originated where...and that´s by genetic analysis of the varietals in question.
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Re: A quest for Phoenix Oolong

Postby Tead Off » Dec 11th, '10, 23:18

gingkoseto wrote:But there can hardly be any evidence about sources of tea tree varietals. Any random Joe in Song dynasty could have pulled out a tea seedling from Guang Dong, or elsewhere, and took it to Wuyi, and that seedling could have become a famous tea tree. Did that happen? How can we know?

But anyway I don't see why that matters to tea drinking and don't see how history study can help a vendor sell tea. :wink:


Some people need to fill their heads with all kinds of information, Gingko. This has little to do with actually drinking tea. But, in terms of selling product, information is how most people buy things. It's a form of seduction and used very effectively in societies. What I admire about Hojo is he actually takes the time to involve himself with the people and processes they use to make the products he sells. So, if you ever have a technical question about something he sells, he usually can answer it completely.

History is something that cannot be relied on as it is the product of the mind's of men, a very dubious instrument that interprets and twists, rewrites, revises, and, sometimes fabricates what happened for all kinds of purposes. :shock:
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