Pu-OTTI 9, 90's Sheng Pu-erh


"Official Tea Tasting Initiative" Teas shared & discussed.

Re: Pu-OTTI 9, 90's Sheng Pu-erh

Postby the_skua » Jan 26th, '11, 10:01

So, If I am to get this right...

"Wet" storage is the intentional exposure to excessive moisture for the purposes of producing a dishonest product.

"Traditional" storage is the carefully managed exposure to a range of above-average moisture conditions, much in the way that affinage is properly practiced for many cave-aged cheeses.

"Dry" storage is the carefully managed exposure to moderate moisture conditions for the purposes of maintaining more of the initial qualities of a tea.

So, then, the 1997 8582 is a "traditional" stored and the 1990s Raw Brick is "dry" stored?
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Re: Pu-OTTI 9, 90's Sheng Pu-erh

Postby brandon » Jan 26th, '11, 11:22

A lot of people say wet storage and "traditional" to mean the same thing.

I do not think spraying water on mixing dirt into tea is big enough of a problem to classify it or deal with it here. I've seen fake aged tea, but I bet most people on this board haven't, and it is more persistant than it should be.
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Re: Pu-OTTI 9, 90's Sheng Pu-erh

Postby TwoPynts » Jan 26th, '11, 11:43

the_skua wrote:So, If I am to get this right...


That's what I took away from my readings. Marshal seems to prefer to have the "Wet Stored" terminology refer to the less savory tea aging practices. I have to agree that I prefer "Traditional" too.
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Re: Pu-OTTI 9, 90's Sheng Pu-erh

Postby TIM » Jan 26th, '11, 11:52

the_skua wrote:So, If I am to get this right...

"Wet" storage is the intentional exposure to excessive moisture for the purposes of producing a dishonest product.

"Traditional" storage is the carefully managed exposure to a range of above-average moisture conditions, much in the way that affinage is properly practiced for many cave-aged cheeses.

"Dry" storage is the carefully managed exposure to moderate moisture conditions for the purposes of maintaining more of the initial qualities of a tea.

So, then, the 1997 8582 is a "traditional" stored and the 1990s Raw Brick is "dry" stored?


You are almost there Skua. :wink:
Wet storage is not an intent to produce a dishonest product, but a purposes to speed up the aging of a product. And if its not carefully manage, it will end up as a moldy product. Meanwhile, Traditional storage often refers to Hong Kong storage, which the location has a clear four seasons and a very high humidity level in late spring. Dry storage is only a recent mass market term, so they can sell you a high price on anything :lol:
Last edited by TIM on Jan 26th, '11, 11:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pu-OTTI 9, 90's Sheng Pu-erh

Postby Chip » Jan 26th, '11, 13:25

To play devil's advocate ... while at the same time acknowledging that I am 100% certain that shady practices are taking place. While also stating for the record that I am pretty ignorant of what is good and what is not when it comes to pu-erh ... thus there is Pu-OTTI.

Just as differing methodology of making so many teas out there (sheng versus shu, steamed versus "fried" greens, etc.), is it not a valid argument that the production or more precisely the aging of pu-erh can be done different ways in order to achieve differing results ... as long as the methodology is well documented ... which is a huge problem given the extended aging and the passing of teas from one person to the next to the next, etc. It becomes seemingly impossible given all the possible variables involved.

This is not to say that spraying pu-erh in any manner would be acceptable ... that goes beyond what even this neophyte would think would be an acceptable practice.
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Re: Pu-OTTI 9, 90's Sheng Pu-erh

Postby wyardley » Jan 26th, '11, 15:14

Chip wrote:Just as differing methodology of making so many teas out there (sheng versus shu, steamed versus "fried" greens, etc.), is it not a valid argument that the production or more precisely the aging of pu-erh can be done different ways in order to achieve differing results ... as long as the methodology is well documented ... which is a huge problem given the extended aging and the passing of teas from one person to the next to the next, etc. It becomes seemingly impossible given all the possible variables involved.

Relative descriptions of wetter or drier storage can be helpful in terms of getting a general sense of a tea's storage, but as you say, there are so many variables, and the tea may change locations or change hands multiple times. In both good and bad ways, in some ways, storage is
the taste of puer. When tasting it, you are trying to assess the entire story of the tea's life since it left the factory.

It's not only the area and weather where the tea was stored, but the presence / absence of temperature and humidity controls, the relative location in the building and in the room, and so on and so on. There may be some cases where the storage is designed to achieve a particular result, but more often than not, the tea is just sitting in whatever warehouse the tea vendor happens to have in whatever area they happen to be located in. While vendors probably think about it more than they used to, I think in many cases, it's more haphazard than you'd think.

I think folks should also note that there are some other things in terms of how the tea is prepped and how it's brewed that make a huge difference in the taste. Even tea that has some kind of funky storage tastes when you first encounter it can be brushed off, broken up, and aired out for a while, and in many cases, a lot of the "storage" taste will recede. I've even seen people pick off the mold from fairly wet-stored cakes (and brew it separately :>). You do often lose some complexity of flavor and brewing durability with the wetter stored stuff.

But I've had some teas with very wet (though probably not intentionally so) storage which really give me a bad feeling, taste horrible, or have an "off" flavor that won't go away; in many cases, that might be a result of what Cloud would probably call "improper" storage rather than just heavy wet storage.

I think with time and experience, you can develop a sense of where a particular tea fits into your personal preferences, but you really have to look at and taste the tea for yourself -- even if you know how someone else's scale of "dry" to "wet" is "calibrated". I will not be one of those people to say that the qi is the only thing that's important, not the taste, but I do think it's important to take notice if a particular tea repeatedly gives you a particularly good or bad feeling.
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Re: Pu-OTTI 9, 90's Sheng Pu-erh

Postby entropyembrace » Jan 26th, '11, 16:10

TwoPynts wrote:
the_skua wrote:So, If I am to get this right...


That's what I took away from my readings. Marshal seems to prefer to have the "Wet Stored" terminology refer to the less savory tea aging practices. I have to agree that I prefer "Traditional" too.


I´d call it Hong Kong storage because that method of storage originated in Hong Kong and other areas with a long history of puerh consumption (sometimes a longer history than Hong Kong) use other methods of storage.

Calling it traditional storage bothers me since it was developed in Hong Kong, in order to satisfy the tastebuds of people in Hong Kong who generally did not like bitter flavours...yes for a person in Hong Kong it may be traditional storage but not elsewhere....
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Re: Pu-OTTI 9, 90's Sheng Pu-erh

Postby TwoPynts » Jan 27th, '11, 11:47

entropyembrace wrote:...Calling it traditional storage bothers me since it was developed in Hong Kong, in order to satisfy the tastebuds of people in Hong Kong who generally did not like bitter flavours...yes for a person in Hong Kong it may be traditional storage but not elsewhere....


Point taken! :)
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Re: Pu-OTTI 9, 90's Sheng Pu-erh

Postby Catfur » Jan 29th, '11, 02:13

Call me presumptuous, but I'm gonna bet the "real" "traditional" storage method is: on a shelf, ignored, in whatever the prevailing climactic conditions of the storage site happen to be, resulting in aging characteristics that vary by geography.
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Re: Pu-OTTI 9, 90's Sheng Pu-erh

Postby gingkoseto » Jan 29th, '11, 14:21

Catfur wrote:Call me presumptuous, but I'm gonna bet the "real" "traditional" storage method is: on a shelf, ignored, in whatever the prevailing climactic conditions of the storage site happen to be, resulting in aging characteristics that vary by geography.


This is close to what "traditional storage" is in my mind, given the conditions are common-sense "proper". But then when talking about "tradition", it really depends on since when. There is a big question mark on whether people purposely age puerh at all 100 years ago.

If traditional storage is defined as in humidity level similar to that of Hong Kong or Taiwan, then the practice is as young as several decades. Whether to call it "traditional" depends on one's definition of "tradition".

When buying tea from China, I personally prefer Kunming storage to Guangzhou storage most of the time, because Kunming has dry storage. But I don't think higher humidity, or even proper wet storage (speed aging) practiced by some people in Guangzhou and Hong Kong is bad (as long as the tea wears an honest wrap when being sold). It's rather a subjective choice. What is the best storage condition, I don't think there will ever be a conclusion, unless the question is as specific as "what is the best storage condition to result in xxx taste and yyy compounds at highest level within zzz years" :mrgreen:
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Re: Pu-OTTI 9, 90's Sheng Pu-erh

Postby entropyembrace » Jan 29th, '11, 22:53

Yes, if I understood Cloud correctly "traditional" Hong Kong storage as described by MarshalN originated in the 20th century...

My preference so far matches yours gingo...I like puerh stored in fairly dry places like Kunming...but I´m interested in trying puerh that was kept in other places. :)

gingkoseto wrote:
Catfur wrote:Call me presumptuous, but I'm gonna bet the "real" "traditional" storage method is: on a shelf, ignored, in whatever the prevailing climactic conditions of the storage site happen to be, resulting in aging characteristics that vary by geography.


This is close to what "traditional storage" is in my mind, given the conditions are common-sense "proper". But then when talking about "tradition", it really depends on since when. There is a big question mark on whether people purposely age puerh at all 100 years ago.

If traditional storage is defined as in humidity level similar to that of Hong Kong or Taiwan, then the practice is as young as several decades. Whether to call it "traditional" depends on one's definition of "tradition".

When buying tea from China, I personally prefer Kunming storage to Guangzhou storage most of the time, because Kunming has dry storage. But I don't think higher humidity, or even proper wet storage (speed aging) practiced by some people in Guangzhou and Hong Kong is bad (as long as the tea wears an honest wrap when being sold). It's rather a subjective choice. What is the best storage condition, I don't think there will ever be a conclusion, unless the question is as specific as "what is the best storage condition to result in xxx taste and yyy compounds at highest level within zzz years" :mrgreen:
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Re: Pu-OTTI 9, 90's Sheng Pu-erh

Postby Chip » Feb 2nd, '11, 21:54

Dry, wet, and somewhere in between. Lots of breaking up the bings and brick ... the first two floors of the house realllly smell like aged sheng!!! :lol: Never experienced anything like this with any teas before.

So, Pu-OTTI will ship Thursday or Friday, weather permitting. Sorry for the delay, had some family health issues that were very pressing.

But the dry leaf sure smells intoxicating!
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Re: Pu-OTTI 9, 90's Sheng Pu-erh

Postby the_economist » Feb 2nd, '11, 22:09

thank you chip! hope all is well with you and your family!
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Re: Pu-OTTI 9, 90's Sheng Pu-erh

Postby JRS22 » Feb 3rd, '11, 00:08

Absolutely family comes first. And with this OTTI we don't have to worry about the tea getting stale during the delay...
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Re: Pu-OTTI 9, 90's Sheng Pu-erh

Postby Chip » Feb 3rd, '11, 00:16

The_econ... wrote:thank you chip! hope all is well with you and your family!

Thank you! Things have improved.
JRS22 wrote:Absolutely family comes first. And with this OTTI we don't have to worry about the tea getting stale during the delay...

Thanks, and true.

And also true, if the aroma of the dry leaf is any indication ... still lingering on the first floor.
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