OTTI Think Tank 1: You say OTTI, I say JTTI?


"Official Tea Tasting Initiative" Teas shared & discussed.

Re: OTTI Think Tank 1: You say OTTI, I say JTTI?

Postby Chip » Feb 20th, '11, 17:08

Why have JTTI in addition to OTTI? Good question.

I place OTTI at the top, then JTTI under OTTI as a more specific designation. Perhaps also a CTTI. I don't know.

So, I am not saying one country's tea are better than another's. I am also not saying that one set of OTTI is better or not ... but they are very different.

They are all OTTI at the end of the day, but a member can see JTTI and decide if they want to look more into it or not.

There is a thought process going on, along with a level of enthusiasm. But I feel there will be more OTTI featuring other countries besides Japan as a result as well!!! I feel a restructuring will allow more Chinese OTTI's to run as well. This willl allow more OTTI to occur.

Having two OTTI running concurrently is confusing to me, yes, they could simply run concurrently as OTTI. But I guess I would say, let's give this a try and see how it goes ... and keep an open mind.

If we focus on reasons why something will not work or why it is wrong, I feel we will miss rewarding opportunities.
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Re: OTTI Think Tank 1: You say OTTI, I say JTTI?

Postby Stentor » Feb 20th, '11, 17:31

I agree that it's likely futile to attempt to get free samples of the highest end gyokuro (probably highest end matcha as well). I don't know about the others, but I was referring to the rest of the teas.

Me personally, I'm happy either way. I enjoy getting the opportunity to sample a variety of teas, even if I'm paying for them.
Getting to try them in small quantities saves a lot of time and money and possible frustration.
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Re: OTTI Think Tank 1: You say OTTI, I say JTTI?

Postby Chip » Feb 20th, '11, 20:07

I think everyone who is participating in the Pu-OTTI would agree, it is a great success. Many of us would not be trying 90's sheng otherwise. Again, many thanks to Brandon and Nada!

As we move forward, I hope we can keep a positive outlook on the possibilities of future OTTIs and be willing to think outside the box, be willing to try new ways of trying new teas!

There was certainly no attempt to purposely "rub" any past contributors with the recent Gyokuro OTTI possible change in the way we do things.

As I mentioned above, there will continue to be OTTI at nominal cost! The gyokuro OTTIs are an exception to the general "rule."

Even for the Pu OTTI there were changes made to accommodate needs/wants of contributors. We only had 3 pu's in the offering, a break from the usual 5. And I purchased special pouches to accommodate the request made by Brandon on the IM.

So, there will always be change.

I apologize to Brandon for the "rub," but the Pu-OTTI was already delaying the future OTTI programs as we all waited and waited for the special pouches.

I set a goal of 18 OTTI per year, figuring if we have 12, I would still be happy.
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Re: OTTI Think Tank 1: You say OTTI, I say JTTI?

Postby Marco » Feb 21st, '11, 17:08

I've just read this thread from a totally neutral point of view.
I have to say I see a difficult discussion here - as is when the moderator has his position in one party of the discussion.
There are great thoughts behind it and I am sure Chip, you do it for the best. I also see wyardleys and brandons objections and they shouldn't be taken too easy.
I don't want to offend someone or judge something here - I just wanted to add the feeling I get when I read this thread.

My two thoughts about this:
If you want to change the name because of a different modus operandi, then I can see the point. If it is just because of a different countries tea, then it doesn't feel right.

And you think 18 a year wouldn't be too much? Okay this will show the time. :)

just my thoughts
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Re: OTTI Think Tank 1: You say OTTI, I say JTTI?

Postby kymidwife » Feb 22nd, '11, 02:29

A rose by any other name...

OK, maybe my view is simplistic, but really, what's in a name? If a differentiation makes it logistically easier for the person organizing the process, I'm fine with that... if people are gonna get their undies in a bunch about it, there could always be a subtitle like OTTI #23 (Spring Darjeeling 2011).

As for the other issues... people who don't like it or don't think its fair or who don't agree with how the vendors are selected... can always choose to just not participate. I don't say that to be mean-spirited, but honestly, I haven't heard any complaints, only happy participants. I have been extremely pleased with each OTTI I've participated in. I got exposure to teas I would not have otherwise tried, for minimal cost, and the teas were recommended to me by someone knowledgeable and experienced, who values tea culture and wants to spread the love. I'm all good with that, I trust Chip's judgment, I wanted to try new teas, the price was right, and that's why I signed up.

Call it OTTI, call it JTTI, call it anything you like... just consider me signed up and ready for the Gyo round. Mmmm.

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Re: OTTI Think Tank 1: You say OTTI, I say JTTI?

Postby Nathaniel87 » Feb 22nd, '11, 17:32

What a difficult and serious topic to stumble into while looking for when this gyokuro tasting even might go live!

Not that it matters much at this point but I do think that perhaps changing the name complicates things a bit and has the potential to offend different groups of teachat users. Afterall, everyone is here because they are passionate about tea, and many people more than likely have specific preferences that are very personal and important to them.

Without getting too much into it, wouldn't it make more sense to perhaps offer an OTTI and an OTTI premium/participant paid? This was there would be no need to break it down by specific countries every time a more expensive tasting was desired. In the end, it wouldn't make sense to have an OTTI, a JTTI and a CTTI etc etc because then the OTTI would eventually become redundant.

As for how the participant paid OTTI is chosen, I it should depend mostly be up to the vendor in most cases, or perhaps by vote in the OTTI premium section where users could vote on which expensive type of teas they would like to group-buy next. For example, people could choose from several possibilities including Sencha, Gyokuro, matcha, Chinese green, Wuyi, Dancong, Aged Sheng Puerh, etc etc.

Just an idea I suppose and it is a bit different from Chip's intention as I don't feel he meant the JTTI to always be a premium sampling, just in this case as gyokuro should, by nature, be a fairly expensive tea.

In this case though, I think it is a great idea overall and were I in Chip's situation I would have done the same thing. Its not that he thought the price of the 90's Sheng was much less or that he wasn't taking Brandon and Nada's generous contribution seriously, it was probably a lot more because of the fact that he had already asked the Japanese tea vendors once for their participation and he didn't feel comfortable turning around and asking them again several months later to not only donate again but donate their most expensive teas.

Thats my two cents anyway and I know it might not be much, but I hate to see passion for our own very personal addictions lead to separation as I have seen it happen before in other, non tea related forums. Teachat is an awesome place for us tea addicts and I think things like this OTTI project are just one of the things that make it so amazing.
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Re: OTTI Think Tank 1: You say OTTI, I say JTTI?

Postby Chip » Feb 22nd, '11, 19:20

"drink what you like, like what you drink."

Thank you for the replies! I will consider them going forward.

I tried unsuccessfully to attach an organization chart that would illustrate my thoughts. Sooo ... bear with me and the crude facsimile. :roll: :wink: :mrgreen:

Perhaps my OP and my thought process had not yet gone full circle, was incomplete. Thus there were holes that I would have filled as the new concept moved forward.

OTTI is the "one to rule them all" :mrgreen: Basically all tastings are under the OTTI program. Then under OTTI and on equal levels are all the more specific designations. I could have done the designations based upon general type, black, oolong, green, pu-erh, etc. but went with nation of origin.

Why? Well, why not? :mrgreen: Seriously, part of this is to keep things straight in my own head. And part is for members/readers who could see the designation first, and could choose to read or ignore ... though I hope they would read.

-----------OTTI

CTTI-----TTTI-----ITTI-----JTTI



KEY:
OTTI-Official Tea Tasting Initiative
CTTI-Chinese Tea Tasting Initiative
TTTI-Taiwanese Tea Tasting Initiative
ITTI-Indian Tea Tasting Initiative
JTTI-Japanese Tea Tasting Initiative

Regarding separatism comments, anyone who knows me knows this is far from my intent!!! However consider this, TeaChat is already organized by types of teas, blacks separated from oolongs, etc ... this is logical and convenient.

My intent here is structure, organization, convenience. There is no intent to set one type of tea over another, there is no intended implication of such ... after all, my mantra is as always, "drink what you like, like what you drink."
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Re: OTTI Think Tank 1: You say OTTI, I say JTTI?

Postby AdamMY » Feb 22nd, '11, 19:23

What about KTTI? (Korean).


All in all I feel people would get used to it which ever way is chosen, and rarely is there a solution which makes everyone happy. So consider my vote to be for what ever you decide based on everyone else's comments.
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Re: OTTI Think Tank 1: You say OTTI, I say JTTI?

Postby Chip » Feb 22nd, '11, 19:25

AdamMY wrote:What about KTTI? (Korean).


All in all I feel people would get used to it which ever way is chosen, and rarely is there a solution which makes everyone happy. So consider my vote to be for what ever you decide based on everyone else's comments.

Yeah, sure, KTTI :mrgreen:
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Re: OTTI Think Tank 1: You say OTTI, I say JTTI?

Postby iannon » Feb 22nd, '11, 21:11

kymidwife wrote:A rose by any other name...

OK, maybe my view is simplistic, but really, what's in a name? If a differentiation makes it logistically easier for the person organizing the process, I'm fine with that... if people are gonna get their undies in a bunch about it, there could always be a subtitle like OTTI #23 (Spring Darjeeling 2011).

As for the other issues... people who don't like it or don't think its fair or who don't agree with how the vendors are selected... can always choose to just not participate. I don't say that to be mean-spirited, but honestly, I haven't heard any complaints, only happy participants. I have been extremely pleased with each OTTI I've participated in. I got exposure to teas I would not have otherwise tried, for minimal cost, and the teas were recommended to me by someone knowledgeable and experienced, who values tea culture and wants to spread the love. I'm all good with that, I trust Chip's judgment, I wanted to try new teas, the price was right, and that's why I signed up.

Call it OTTI, call it JTTI, call it anything you like... just consider me signed up and ready for the Gyo round. Mmmm.

Sarah

+1!
otti, putti, jtti, wunderti, idontcareti..group buy, official, unofficial..*shrug* personally i am not caught up in the naming.. its all a way for some of us who want to..to taste some awesome teas from around the world. We have some AMAZING members who have contributed teas to the journey. Kudos and thanks to them! I sure would have paid more and still would if anyone wants/needs! ..dont need them losing money either. Either way...the opportunity for us to taste such a variety of teas we may not normally have the faculties too is just well..great! We have a mod (and others) who are willing to take time and resources to put these together.. always with a willign ear to suggestions. So..they get a group of teas im interested in,..WOOT! im in..if im not so interested..I'll pass and I have on some.. I think ive been involved in four..all were an adventure for me..thanks again to all!
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Re: OTTI Think Tank 1: You say OTTI, I say JTTI?

Postby MarshalN » Feb 23rd, '11, 02:12

I don't really see the point for having all these categories. The more useful category will be paid or unpaid, so I think Nathaniel87 is on the money here -- OTTI is going to be a pretty redundant category. Moreover, it will confuse those who might be newer to the forum or this whole OTTI thing to see a whole bunch of different things. CTTI - Longjing doesn't tell you anything more than OTTI - Longjing, or JTTI - Premium Sencha is basically the same as OTTI - Premium Sencha, so why add needless categories? Generally speaking, people either already know what they are, or they're completely clueless and the changing letter isn't going to make things much clearer. If I have no idea what a dancong is, does it matter if it's CTTI, JTTI, or ITTI?

Whereas if something is going to require payment - that should, I think, be in bold, highlighted, and be obvious, right away. I'm sure many of us would like to try premium gyokuro, but I'm not sure if a lot of us have $50 to spend on premium gyokuro that they may or may not like.
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Re: OTTI Think Tank 1: You say OTTI, I say JTTI?

Postby entropyembrace » Feb 23rd, '11, 03:59

Chip wrote:
OTTI is the "one to rule them all" :mrgreen: Basically all tastings are under the OTTI program. Then under OTTI and on equal levels are all the more specific designations. I could have done the designations based upon general type, black, oolong, green, pu-erh, etc. but went with nation of origin.

Why? Well, why not? :mrgreen: Seriously, part of this is to keep things straight in my own head. And part is for members/readers who could see the designation first, and could choose to read or ignore ... though I hope they would read.

-----------OTTI

CTTI-----TTTI-----ITTI-----JTTI



KEY:
OTTI-Official Tea Tasting Initiative
CTTI-Chinese Tea Tasting Initiative
TTTI-Taiwanese Tea Tasting Initiative
ITTI-Indian Tea Tasting Initiative
JTTI-Japanese Tea Tasting Initiative

Regarding separatism comments, anyone who knows me knows this is far from my intent!!! However consider this, TeaChat is already organized by types of teas, blacks separated from oolongs, etc ... this is logical and convenient.

My intent here is structure, organization, convenience. There is no intent to set one type of tea over another, there is no intended implication of such ... after all, my mantra is as always, "drink what you like, like what you drink."


I´ve been watching this thread since you opened it rather confused as to what the intention was...certainly at first it just looked like a way to elevate Japanese teas above everything else...

But now that you´ve explained more clearly....it just seems like more categorization for the sake of categorization rather than serving much purpose...

And in some cases this kind of categorization by country wouldn´t even make sense....the silver needles and first oolong OTTIs for example included teas from more than one country.
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Re: OTTI Think Tank 1: You say OTTI, I say JTTI?

Postby Stentor » Feb 23rd, '11, 06:03

I think what Chip means is that OTTI will go on as usual.
Additionally, for those who want to focus on tea from one specific country of origin (or type or whatever...) have the chance to participate in tastings of those teas.
Since the normal OTTI is not biased towards one type of tea, those who only want to taste, for instance, Japanese tea, will only want to partcipate in OTTI every couple of months, i.e. when an OTTI round is about Japanese tea.
The subcategory "JTTI" offers them a chance to taste the type of tea they focus on much more regularly (let's say every 4-8 months) without interfering with the normal OTTI.

It's like there's an OTTI line stretching through the entire year in your calendar, and then, parallel to the OTTI line, there's a JTTI line, a CTTI line and so on.
I don't see a problem with this at all. In fact I think it's a pretty good way of making more people happier.
Of course, if there's one "x"TTI for every country of origin, and the OTTI was not supposed to include teas from countries that have their own xTTI, then you'd ocassionally need the xTTI lines to meet the OTTI line. That's not a big problem either.

I don't think it's about the names. In fact, I personally don't care what it's called. If most people think it's confusing, you can also call it "OTTI Japan" or something. Whatever makes it easier to organize.

Really, what it comes down to is more opportunities for everybody to taste more teas with other TC members. That's it.
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Re: OTTI Think Tank 1: You say OTTI, I say JTTI?

Postby Chip » Feb 23rd, '11, 15:02

Thank you again everyone for your comments.

MarshalN wrote:Whereas if something is going to require payment - that should, I think, be in bold, highlighted, and be obvious, right away. I'm sure many of us would like to try premium gyokuro, but I'm not sure if a lot of us have $50 to spend on premium gyokuro that they may or may not like.

I always include the total delivered cost in the OP for each OTTI. There is nothing hidden here.

The 40ish USD cost of a premium OTTI featuring 5 X 10 grams of tea that costs around 80 USD per 100 grams seems pretty reasonable if someone wants to sample 5 premium selections. The alternative is to pay 40ish USD for 50 grams of one selection if it is available in a smaller packet ... or 80 for 100 grams of one selection. Not to mention the cost of buying 5 selections.

Here, we get to sample 5. Yes, this will not be for everyone, but for those who are eager, here is the opportunity. And I look at this as a rare and great opportunity ... and am very positive that those participating will be exhilarated by the experience.

There will be a lower cost one, likely based on 60ish USD per 100 grams as part of this Gyokuro Trifecta of OTTIs.

And there will be a less expensive one somewhere down the road, but not one for gyokuro costing less than 30 USD per 100 grams since there are few worthy in this price range. I also believe that participants are much more likely to like gyokuro that is better quality and WILL cost more ... no cheap seats on the premium gyokuro train. :mrgreen:

But the math is simple.
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Re: OTTI Think Tank 1: You say OTTI, I say JTTI?

Postby MarshalN » Feb 23rd, '11, 17:15

My point is not that it's expensive, but rather, if you're going to make new categories, the "paid" and "free" categories are much more useful than category by country, which I think is pretty much meaningless. Like Entropy said, it's just categorization for the sake of it, which is sort of pointless.
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