Hobin vs. Shiboridashi?


Made from leaves that have not been oxidized.

Given a choice of Hobin vs. Shiboridashi for appropriate tea(s), which do you choose?

Houjin always
2
9%
Houjin mostly
8
36%
A coin toss
2
9%
Shib mostly
4
18%
Shib always
2
9%
Other
4
18%
 
Total votes : 22

Hobin vs. Shiboridashi?

Postby Chip » Aug 31st, '11, 16:37

Anyone in the West but TeaChatters would say this is splitting hairs, there is virtually no difference!

Or is there?

A houjin spelled 20 different ways is still a hobin. :mrgreen: The tea pours generally through a screen in the side of the wall with a spout attached. The rim that holds the lid is entire, 360*. Usually more upright in appearance than a shiboridashi.

A shiboridashi is simply always spelled shiboridashi. The tea pours through an opening between the lid and wall, usually a modification of some kind that may include a "rake" screen ... or none at all. The rim that holds the lid may be non existant to 360* or somewhere in between. Usually flatter/lower in appearance than a houjin, but not always.

Please discuss your thoughts on both, your preferences (for what teas ... perhaps I will move this to teaware forum depending upon answers), etc. And vote!

Thanks.
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Re: Houjin vs. Shiboridashi?

Postby Tead Off » Aug 31st, '11, 23:02

Often, I've found shiboridashi flatter and smaller than hobin and more useful for Gyokuro or drinking alone. I've also found that potters often take more artistic liberty with shiboridashi but that certainly doesn't apply to the Bizen or Hagi hobins.

Personally, I find myself more drawn to the shiboridashi. Less stiff and sexier.
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Re: Houjin vs. Shiboridashi?

Postby AdamMY » Aug 31st, '11, 23:15

I haven't voted in the Poll, as I have honestly never used a Shiboridashi. But I will say my two Houjins are some of my absolute favorite pieces of teaware.

edit: added photos.


Image

Image
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Re: Houjin vs. Shiboridashi?

Postby NOESIS » Aug 31st, '11, 23:24

Have both. Use my houhins much more often.
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Re: Houjin vs. Shiboridashi?

Postby Chip » Aug 31st, '11, 23:39

Beautiful houjins, Adam!

OK, all I have in the shiboridashi realm are 2 Petr-Yaki and 5ish Korean travel sets that are a bit more upright. I certainly will have to pick up some Japanese shibs ... then answer again.

Hobins or however you wanna spell it. 3 Hagi, 2 Bizen.

I tend to lean towards the houjin style, seems easier for me to use. Plus the A-R side of me likes how the leaves stay in the pot and not all over the lid like they tend to with shiboridashi.

But this is not by a landslide! It is pretty close as I really like to use the Korean "shiboridashi-s" as well. I am still getting to know the Petr shibs.
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Re: Houjin vs. Shiboridashi?

Postby entropyembrace » Aug 31st, '11, 23:40

Shibi always....that might change if I actually had a houjin :lol:
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Re: Houjin vs. Shiboridashi?

Postby fnord » Sep 1st, '11, 05:44

IMG_4072.JPG
IMG_4072.JPG (301.8 KiB) Viewed 3038 times



i own both.The houjin is used almost every day for most of my senchas and the shiboridashi only for gyokuro,which i drink occasionally.
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Re: Houjin vs. Shiboridashi?

Postby Drax » Sep 1st, '11, 07:24

Although I have a nifty celadon houbin, I have not yet used it to make tea. I have only used a shiboridashi, and I really enjoy making tea with it. Since I haven't used a houbin, though, I didn't vote a preference.

But whatever you do, I beg of you all, please don't call it a houjin. I would be very curious as to where that translatation originated. I guarantee that any Japanese person hearing that word will think of 邦人 or 法人, which respectively mean "fellow countryman," or "corporation," -- with the key being 人, meaning "person."

I have never seen a good source on this topic. The most likely term is houbin, with the 'bin' deriving from 瓶, meaning 'bottle,' which is the same 'bin' as in tetsubin, ginbin, etc.

The 'hou' is more problematic, as I described here in this thread. Fortunately the ambiguity is less in the pronunciation than it is in the spelling.

In the meantime, I've learned a bit of a complicating factor, which is 'mahoubin' is the term for 'thermos' -- but in this case, 'mahou' is the term that we would use for 'magic' (i.e. a thermos is a 'magic bottle') and likely not related to the 'hou' here.

So, bottom line: definitely not houjin, and preferably houbin over houhin. At least, until somebody can provide me with better source material (and by the way, that means no Japanese Wikipedia, because that article on kyuusu is ... odd).

We now return you to your non-dry-as-dirt discussion about tea vessels!
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Re: Houjin vs. Shiboridashi?

Postby night.owl » Sep 1st, '11, 10:42

Oh great. Since I've only tried a houjin, I now have something new to seek out and try!

Noutomi Sasumu Aohagi Hojin.jpg
Noutomi Sasumu Aohagi Hojin.jpg (29.05 KiB) Viewed 2999 times


...not that I mind, mind you... gear acquisition syndrome could always use a bit of justification ;)
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Re: Houjin vs. Shiboridashi?

Postby JRS22 » Sep 1st, '11, 10:51

I have a shiboridashi which is part of a Gyokuro set, along with two cups and a Yuzamashi that are sized for the shiboridashi. It's been a key factor in the improvement in my Gyokuro brewing ability.

I have a houhin made by an amateur potter (me). It's large, and the holes in the spout are too large for Sencha. It works well for genmaicha and houjicha. They're my favorite teas for chilly evenings, so they'll be moving to the front of my tea cabinet soon.

Does anyone find their shib or houhin useful for Chinese greens?
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Re: Houjin vs. Shiboridashi?

Postby Chip » Sep 1st, '11, 11:27

Thanks Drax. I will rename the topic. This might take a little while to get used to for me since I am pretty programmed to say houjin. Hobin it shall be! This is what Mago calls them.

night.owl wrote:
Noutomi Sasumu Aohagi Hojin.jpg

Oh, that is a beautiful tebineri hobin! There some big fans of Choun kiln on the forum. Too bad they do not cost around 50 bucks!!! :cry:

JRS22 wrote:Does anyone find their shib or houhin useful for Chinese greens?
Why not? I use the shibs from Korea for most any green ... Korean, Japanese (asa), Chinese. These are glazed however! I would be reluctant to use an unglazed one for all different greens given my previous experience with a kyusu.
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Re: Houjin vs. Shiboridashi?

Postby Chip » Sep 1st, '11, 11:29

fnord wrote: i own both.The houjin is used almost every day for most of my senchas and the shiboridashi only for gyokuro,which i drink occasionally.

So, are these Banko? And I notice the vent holes look a bit unusual. Can you show a lid shot?

Thanks.
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Re: Hobin vs. Shiboridashi?

Postby fnord » Sep 1st, '11, 11:47

IMG_4078.JPG
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IMG_4076.JPG
IMG_4076.JPG (79.81 KiB) Viewed 2976 times


yes, both are banko by jitsuzan.
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Re: Houjin vs. Shiboridashi?

Postby Drax » Sep 1st, '11, 11:52

Chip wrote:Thanks Drax. I will rename the topic. This might take a little while to get used to for me since I am pretty programmed to say houjin. Hobin it shall be! This is what Mago calls them.


Thanks for entertaining my rant, Chip! :wink:

We'll have you reprogrammed in no time. Just brew sencha out of your ho(u)bin every day for the next week, and repeat, "I love my ho(u)bin!"

And remember, it's hoh-bean.

Not hobbin. :wink:
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Re: Houjin vs. Shiboridashi?

Postby night.owl » Sep 1st, '11, 12:32

AdamMY wrote:I haven't voted in the Poll, as I have honestly never used a Shiboridashi. But I will say my two Houjins are some of my absolute favorite pieces of teaware.

Image


I love the color of this one! I could honestly make it a favorite as well ;)
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