Westlake Dragonwell?


Made from leaves that have not been oxidized.

Re: Westlake Dragonwell?

Postby Chip » Sep 22nd, '11, 16:24

... however I do agree that teas should generally be first approached w/o prejudice so proper assessments can be made!

Best of luck in your ... path of discovery. :!:
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Re: Westlake Dragonwell?

Postby rdl » Sep 22nd, '11, 16:40

j-z wrote:i heard that higher quality greens tend to mean they have a lighter flavour, is this true? if so im probably better off with a lower quality one. i ordered a pound of the third grade dragonwell from tenren as well as a sample of the 1st grade just to compare anyhow. so far the green tea ive tried that ive liked best was the yamamotoyama sencha, which i know a lot of people seem to look down on but i guess the flavour just appeals to me.. kind of burnt and sweet, great smell to it too.
is there any reason for suspecting bad business practices of tenren? it seems a big accusation to suggest they would intentionally mislead the customers like that, maybe all businesses do that i dunno but i tend to want to give the benefit of the doubt unless ive received some sort of evidence to make me think differently. anyways i just look forward to something other than this gunpowder green ive been stuck with the past week, anything has to be a step up from that.

it is hard to generalize but often "lower quality" tea does have a bolder taste, rather than the more refined taste of higher quality. many will call this coarse tea, and that must appeal to your taste. i can't answer to the selling methods of ten ren but it is labeled as 3rd grade and described as such, so you know what you are getting. one thing i believe you can count on from companies like ten ren and yamamotoyama, being some of the largest tea companies, is that they cater to all levels of tea drinkers with maybe not the best of teas but usually teas that year after year taste the same because they want to provide a constant to their customers. many tea drinkers rely on this, others resent it. and they do it by owning the tea plantations or by contracting (if that's the right term) to meet the huge production output they require.
the full spectrum of tea is represented by ten ren, and if you like this 3rd grade dragon well, i think you'll find it to be similar year after year. comparing the two DW teas you bought will highlight the differences, but don't worry if you continue to buy the 3rd grade, you and millions of others drink this all the time.
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Re: Westlake Dragonwell?

Postby j-z » Sep 22nd, '11, 18:19

yeah i read about yamamotoyama using tea from brazil. im not personally offended that they dont label it as such tho.. maybe there's a strict definition for what is 'real sencha', like it has to be grown in japan or something, i dont know all that vintage stuff, i kind of feel that if its grown with the same cultivar (if thats the right word for it), like the same sort of plant stock and in a similar climate and processed the same way then its all good, it certainly tastes better than the japanese grown sencha ive had in any case :cry:
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Re: Westlake Dragonwell?

Postby j-z » Oct 5th, '11, 20:07

For anyone who is curious, I contacted tenren cs and they replied:


Thank you for your message and interest in our products. Yes, all of our Dragon Well teas come from various farms of the West Lake Region.

Sincerely,

Veng
Customer Service
TenRen.com


This third grade dragonwell is very very good, the first grade is better but I don't know whether the added expense really justifies the extra cost. Anyways, product arrived within a week of ordering, sealed well in attractive packaging. I would definitely recommend this vendor for anyone seeking a more affordable dragonwell.
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Re: Westlake Dragonwell?

Postby Tead Off » Oct 6th, '11, 03:22

Ten Tea is a big company in China. They claim to own their own farms for TGY production. There is no reason to believe they cannot supply West Lake LJ. Does anyone really believe they cannot move into a market and even push out many smaller vendors in the USA who claim they are buying West Lake LJ?

So, whether they are selling the real stuff or not, how many among us really know how to tell? Or, do we just guess or believe in what we read from a few posters? I would think if someone buys their tea and enjoys it, it is good enough, no?
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Re: Westlake Dragonwell?

Postby vacuithe » Oct 6th, '11, 04:00

Proinsias wrote:Another vote for Postcards Teas, Master Luo's long jing is spectacular.


+1 !
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Re: Westlake Dragonwell?

Postby Fabien » Oct 6th, '11, 05:52

Hello TCers,

Xi Hu (West Lake) Long Jing is probably the most well known tea, both in China and elsewhere (or at least as known as Da Hong Pao).

And it is also the most copied of all chinese teas. But then, who can be trusted when claiming selling "authentic" Xi Hu Long Jing?

Production area of genuine XHLJ, according to "men of the art" in China should be strictly areas surrounding Long Jing and Meijiawu villages, something around 150 km2 (correct me if I'm wrong, it's difficult to have precise information).

And Shi Feng is just a very small part of this tea area. This year, no Shi Feng long Jing were sold under around 100€/100gr (final price in western tea shops). And for some very good qualities it's up to 300€/100gr with very limited quantities (a few hundreds grams per buyer).

But, as sadly announced in some seller's descriptions, Shi Feng is now just used as a mark of higher quality (see http://www.palaisdesthes.com/en/long-jing-shi-feng2011-new-season-china-green-tea-1065.html?category=51 for example)!

So, as previously said here, just find a vendor that you trust, talk with him, drink his teas and, finally, make your own opinion on the tea's quality. And enjoy!!!
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Re: Westlake Dragonwell?

Postby Chip » Oct 6th, '11, 10:23

j-z wrote:yeah i read about yamamotoyama using tea from brazil. im not personally offended that they dont label it as such tho.. maybe there's a strict definition for what is 'real sencha', like it has to be grown in japan or something, i dont know all that vintage stuff, i kind of feel that if its grown with the same cultivar (if thats the right word for it), like the same sort of plant stock and in a similar climate and processed the same way then its all good, it certainly tastes better than the japanese grown sencha ive had in any case :cry:

I thought I replied to this some time ago ...

I find it deceptive to call a tea "sencha" that is grown in another country that does not include the other country of origin in the product title. For instance I have purchased Chinese Sencha labeled as such. It was bad, but at least I knew what I was buying in advance.

The term sencha by itself implies that it is Japanese in origin. Selling Brazilian grown tea as sencha and not naming it as such is simply deceptive.

If you like it, great ... but labeling is something that is commonly deceptive in the tea industry ... for instance West Lake ... :evil:

As I said before, Like what you drink, drink what you like.
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Re: Westlake Dragonwell?

Postby gingkoseto » Oct 6th, '11, 11:59

Tead Off wrote:Ten Tea is a big company in China...


The Ten Fu in mainland China is more of a daughter company of Ten Ren of Taiwan. North American Ten Fu stores (they seem to franchise instead of manage stores as a chain) are more connected to Ten Ren than to Ten Fu. Last time I checked, the LJ sold in Ten Ren in Toronto is from Taiwan and labeled so on the package.

Overall I wouldn't say Ten Ren is of low quality. Their Toronto stores lean toward the higher end. I think their $50 tea is definitely a lot better than $5 tea of a lot of other brands - you know, if we consider quality only, and don't talk about price. :wink: I think Ten Fu in mainland China is definitely of decent quality. I heard a lot of complaints about their prices, but rarely complaints about their quality on oolong or greens.
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Re: Westlake Dragonwell?

Postby Tead Off » Oct 6th, '11, 23:27

gingkoseto wrote:
Tead Off wrote:Ten Tea is a big company in China...


The Ten Fu in mainland China is more of a daughter company of Ten Ren of Taiwan. North American Ten Fu stores (they seem to franchise instead of manage stores as a chain) are more connected to Ten Ren than to Ten Fu. Last time I checked, the LJ sold in Ten Ren in Toronto is from Taiwan and labeled so on the package.

Overall I wouldn't say Ten Ren is of low quality. Their Toronto stores lean toward the higher end. I think their $50 tea is definitely a lot better than $5 tea of a lot of other brands - you know, if we consider quality only, and don't talk about price. :wink: I think Ten Fu in mainland China is definitely of decent quality. I heard a lot of complaints about their prices, but rarely complaints about their quality on oolong or greens.

Thanks for clarifying the chain of command. My posts only deal with the mainland company as I mentioned in the oolong threads awhile ago. I have outstanding TGY from them so it is very possible they may have very good LJ. I have no idea what they are selling in USA.
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Re: Westlake Dragonwell?

Postby oeroe » Oct 7th, '11, 17:17

hopeofdawn wrote:I've had Dragonwell before, and enjoyed it a great deal--but I've also heard that authentic Westlake Dragonwell (long jing/long ching?) really does live up to its reputation as a superior tea.


I wouldn't personally say that Long Jing has a reputation as a superior tea, it simply is the best known one. Microsoft Word doesn't necessarily have a reputation as the best text editor, but is certainly is the best known one!

But yeah, there are many other equally great tea varieties in China, many also famous and many not-so famous. Fame of a tea has good and bad aspects. Due the fame of Longjing there is quite a lot of information around on the tea - also a lot of false information. But I would say that it is much harder to find real info on Hunanese Qu Yuan Xiang than on Long Jing.

Which, of course, makes me want to compare. :) Can anyone recommend a good source for authentic Westlake Dragonwell? It seems like every tea retailer out there has 'dragonwell', but the quality (and the location it comes from) seems to be all over the map, so I'd love any recommendations people might have!

My personal favourites are from Gingko's Life in Teacup. Amazing Green Tea has good Longjings, they are much stronger and bolder than those of Gingko, some like them a lot, I can't really doubt their quality.
Teaspring doesn't have good Longjing.

j-z wrote:i heard that higher quality greens tend to mean they have a lighter flavour, is this true? i


For me it often seems that the second grade is the most characteristic of given tea. At least with longjing from AGT this is the case (although I've tasted only their wang and jipin).
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Re: Westlake Dragonwell?

Postby Tead Off » Oct 8th, '11, 00:05

oeroe wrote:For me it often seems that the second grade is the most characteristic of given tea. At least with longjing from AGT this is the case (although I've tasted only their wang and jipin).

You can only make a statement like this regarding one vendor's selection. It will not apply to LJ at all, in general, because, what is offered through various vendors comes through various sources which all carry different teas from different farms.

LJ is a top tea everywhere in the world, especially China. Your personal taste may draw you to a different tea, but, LJ is one of the beloved teas. There are real reasons for that and not just market hype. It has a wonderful flavor matched with a wonderful price. :D
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Re: Westlake Dragonwell?

Postby bagua7 » Oct 10th, '11, 01:40

oeroe wrote:Teaspring doesn't have good Longjing.


Sorry but I have to disagree here. Their quality is similar to that of Jing Tea Shop, both of which I tried their offerings.

oeroe wrote:Amazing Green Tea has good Longjings


I don't trust vendors which use marketing gimmicks about their products:

"Tribute Dragon Well tea has a light body with a mesmerizing chestnutty aroma.

The Chinese White House consumes 500 kilograms each year. We offer the same tea leaves using the same purity and grading system.
"

http://shop.amazing-green-tea.com/dragon-well-tea.html
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Re: Westlake Dragonwell?

Postby oeroe » Oct 10th, '11, 09:25

bagua7 wrote:Sorry but I have to disagree here. Their quality is similar to that of Jing Tea Shop, both of which I tried their offerings.


Well, have to admit that personal taste is quite important factor here, but I really don't think that Teaspring's LJ is really worth it's cost. Leaves don't look like the to quality for me, and taste was quite flat, I did find it boring. Maybe we appreciate different things in the taste, maybe I got a bad patch.
I don't think I've tasted LJ from Jing this year, so I can't compare them. I'm comparing to Longjings from AGT and Life in Teacup, some Gong A -Grade LJ my local teashop had, and same samples from friends. (Gong A was roughly similar to Teaspring's, I'd say)

I don't trust vendors which use marketing gimmicks about their products:

Have you tasted their teas? I also dislike that kind of marketing, and their teas aren't exatly to my taste, but their quality is quite high, IMHO.
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Re: Westlake Dragonwell?

Postby bagua7 » Oct 11th, '11, 20:31

oeroe wrote:Well, have to admit that personal taste is quite important factor here


Exactly. :)

oeroe wrote:but I really don't think that Teaspring's LJ is really worth it's cost. Leaves don't look like the to quality for me, and taste was quite flat, I did find it boring. Maybe we appreciate different things in the taste, maybe I got a bad patch.


Maybe, maybe not, who knows.

oeroe wrote:
I don't trust vendors which use marketing gimmicks about their products:

Have you tasted their teas? I also dislike that kind of marketing, and their teas aren't exatly to my taste, but their quality is quite high, IMHO.


No, I haven't after being discouraged from doing so in this very forum, two years ago, but I will try this time as I like to purchase from different vendors in order to compare qualities and such. Which particular grade has left you impressed?

Regards.
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