Dan Cong - is it really that naturally floral...?


Owes its flavors to oxidation levels between green & black tea.

Dan Cong - is it really that naturally floral...?

Postby Drae » Nov 10th, '11, 00:30

... or is there a likelihood that it's actually been flavored with oils or something?

So, I got myself a few varieties of oolongs so I can start taking notes and getting a better feel for different types of oxidation and processing and regions and ... oh my.

I got both of the Dan Cong varieties from yunnan sourcing (Phoenix Orchid and Feng Huang). BOY - once I finally was patient enough to sit down and brew it properly, there was floral sweetness a plenty. (The first time round, I got distracted, over boiled, over brewed, you name it - and sort of killed the leaves) But... so much floral from tea leaves, without it being "adultered?" I almost don't believe it.
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Re: Dan Cong - is it really that naturally floral...?

Postby debunix » Nov 10th, '11, 00:43

And more floral in the best versions--unbelievable at times.\

That's why it's so adored by it's aficionados.

With it being a rather expensive tea, it's almost surprising that i haven't heard of it being adulterated for more flavor. The disputes re: Dan Congs seem to stem from the definition of what 'single bush' means, and the age & growth habit of the individual tea trees.
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Re: Dan Cong - is it really that naturally floral...?

Postby Bob_McBob » Nov 10th, '11, 01:16

The first time I had really nice dan cong, the person I was drinking it with assumed it was a flavoured tea because it was so fruity.
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Re: Dan Cong - is it really that naturally floral...?

Postby wyardley » Nov 10th, '11, 02:27

While there shouldn't be, it's certainly not unheard of for fragrances / flavors to be added. I am not sure if there's any sure way to tell; I have heard some people say that chemical scents will usually recede after the fourth or fifth brew.
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Re: Dan Cong - is it really that naturally floral...?

Postby Oni » Nov 10th, '11, 03:09

wyardley wrote:While there shouldn't be, it's certainly not unheard of for fragrances / flavors to be added. I am not sure if there's any sure way to tell; I have heard some people say that chemical scents will usually recede after the fourth or fifth brew.

I know that the chemical flavourings fade very quickly and they give a huge punch at the begining but there is nothing left after 3 brews, but with a good quality Dancong, or Tie Guan Yin, even after you finished the session, the leaves still have that nice smell.
And regardin the Dancongs you tried Drae, did you try this new Fenhuang pomelo flower aroma from Yunnan Sourcing, because I ordered 100 grams recently, I can hardly wait to try it, judging from the pictures it looks less oxidized than other DC, I hope it is light green and floral.
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Re: Dan Cong - is it really that naturally floral...?

Postby Oni » Nov 10th, '11, 03:18

I generally brew Dancong with short timing, like after a short wash for 20 seconds, 10 seconds, 20, 30 and so on, I use around 6 grams to 120 ml gaiwan. I have a Chao Zhou teapot too. I need a CZ tea kettle, and I am well equipped for Dancong.
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Re: Dan Cong - is it really that naturally floral...?

Postby Drae » Nov 10th, '11, 15:59

Oni wrote: And regardin the Dancongs you tried Drae, did you try this new Fenhuang pomelo flower aroma from Yunnan Sourcing, because I ordered 100 grams recently, I can hardly wait to try it, judging from the pictures it looks less oxidized than other DC, I hope it is light green and floral.


Yes, the Fen Huang was my favorite of the two I tried. The Orchid was a touch too floral, but the pomelo had more of a sweetness to it. Both were very light, which slightly surprised me. The orchid seemed a bit more touchy regarding brew time and temp, too - it seemed best if I could snag the water *just* before it boiled, and steep well under 30 sec for that initial blast. I think you'll really enjoy it. Take your time.
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Re: Dan Cong - is it really that naturally floral...?

Postby rhondabee » Nov 10th, '11, 16:04

Bob_McBob wrote:The first time I had really nice dan cong, the person I was drinking it with assumed it was a flavoured tea because it was so fruity.


Yeah, I had Dan Cong for the first time recently, and it was so fruity scented, it was unbelievable. I'm craving some & it is now on my list of teas to purchase. With all the fruitiness of the scent, I didn't get much floral, but I'm sure some types are more floral than fruity.
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Re: Dan Cong - is it really that naturally floral...?

Postby Oni » Nov 11th, '11, 04:10

I like the expression that sevencups used "unparalleled fragrance", I recently tried tea habitats Dancongs, those were great, and jingteashop`s were awesome too, these teas are so diffrent from Wu Yi oolongs, although both are long leaf rolled oolong, with the "twist of the black dragon".
THere are 4 oolong producing regions in china, fujian, wu yi, guangdong - fenhuang, taiwan, most produce lighter oxidized ball shaped or semisferical shaped oolong, only guangdong oolong and wu yi maintained the classic oolong look.
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Re: Dan Cong - is it really that naturally floral...?

Postby Oni » Nov 23rd, '11, 07:45

I tried the pomelo fragrance Dancong, it is absolutely great, intoxicating aroma, truly outstanding fragrance, but a bit hard to get right, I assume the plantation is very young, it tends to get bitter if over infused, it should be kept under 10 seconds for first 4 brews, and it lasts a long time 10 + or even more brews, it is clean and crisp and highly fragrant like all Dancongs.
I noticed that all oolongs have a certain style, one can recognize immediately, yancha has a distinct mineral flavour, Dancong has that fresh tart falvour, and Tgy and Taiwanese oolong have that eggy veggie protein flavour.
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Re: Dan Cong - is it really that naturally floral...?

Postby Wh&yel-appr... » Nov 25th, '11, 19:36

Oni wrote:I tried the pomelo fragrance Dancong, it is absolutely great, intoxicating aroma, truly outstanding fragrance, but a bit hard to get right, I assume the plantation is very young, it tends to get bitter if over infused, it should be kept under 10 seconds for first 4 brews, and it lasts a long time 10 + or even more brews, it is clean and crisp and highly fragrant like all Dancongs.
I noticed that all oolongs have a certain style, one can recognize immediately, yancha has a distinct mineral flavour, Dancong has that fresh tart falvour, and Tgy and Taiwanese oolong have that eggy veggie protein flavour.


Uh completely disagree on that. I taste similiar flavors in green tea, and Taiwanese oolong, how much oxidation plays an important part. Wuyi don't have a distinct mineral flavour, though if you believe Hojo, certain Taiwanese high altitude, certain old bush Dan Cong Phoenix Mtn, certain high mtn Wuyi, all have higher mineral content.

If find, roasting levels + oxidation levels make a big difference in perception---no matter where the tea comes from.

As a fanatically demanding fruit taster, probably one of the most severely selective on the planet, I don't find "peachy" or "apricot" fruity aromas in any of the DC's I tried so far, which includes more than a dozen or so that Imen brewed for me at her old Tea Habitat store.


Oni wrote:I generally brew Dancong with short timing, like after a short wash for 20 seconds, 10 seconds, 20, 30 and so on, I use around 6 grams to 120 ml gaiwan. I have a Chao Zhou teapot too. I need a CZ tea kettle, and I am well equipped for Dancong.


well if you believe Hojo, you certainly are not :D

http://hojotea.com/article_e/phoenix_e.htm

I have also tested various kinds of Yixing red clays in brewing Phoenix Dan Cong tea. I found that more than half the number of clays I have tested did not perform with Phoenix Dan Cong tea at all, although they show great performance for other types of tea. It is important to carefully select the suitable type of clay for brewing Phoenix Dan Cong tea.

Some people strongly believe that Chao Zhou teapot performs very well with Phoenix Dan Cong tea since they are produced from the same hometown. However, I found that this is not a correct perception.

Again, it depends on the particular clay. Some could perform well and some do not perform at all. If you are not very certain whether or not your tea ware is suitable for brewing Phoenix Dan Cong tea, please rather use either glass or ceramic tea ware. Since our selection of Phoenix Oolongs is all from tea trees of more than 100 years old, you would enjoy strong after taste and flavor, even if tea is brewed in glassware.
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Re: Dan Cong - is it really that naturally floral...?

Postby Herb_Master » Nov 25th, '11, 21:51

wh&yel-apprentice wrote:
well if you believe Hojo, you certainly are not :D

Some people strongly believe that Chao Zhou teapot performs very well with Phoenix Dan Cong tea since they are produced from the same hometown. However, I found that this is not a correct perception.

Again, it depends on the particular clay. Some could perform well and some do not perform at all. .


But it ALL depends on the person - we all have different tastes.

I bought a Gisui tokoname (original) natural red clay Kyusu from Hojo because he thought it was perfect for DC.

I bought several Chao Zhou pots from Imen.

Against both these and a Gaiwan I prefer to brew my DC in cheap medium thick walled Zisha purple clay pots from Zen 8 Tea - they give me the best DC experience .

1 Cheap Zisha
2 Chao Zhou
3 Gaiwan
4 Gisui Tokoname

But I look for texture and body and flavour. Those who wish to home in on the Xiang would not agree with me.

For me the Gisui is superb at taming harsh Yan Cha and making it mellow and delightful - with refined Yan Cha it emasculates.
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Re: Dan Cong - is it really that naturally floral...?

Postby BioHorn » Nov 25th, '11, 23:51

wh&yel-apprentice wrote:
Oni wrote: it should be kept under 10 seconds for first 4 brews, and it lasts a long time 10 + or even more brews



If find, roasting levels + oxidation levels make a big difference in perception---no matter where the tea comes from.

As a fanatically demanding fruit taster, probably one of the most severely selective on the planet, I don't find "peachy" or "apricot" fruity aromas in any of the DC's I tried so far, which includes more than a dozen or so that Imen brewed for me at her old Tea Habitat store.


Oni wrote:I generally brew Dancong with short timing, like after a short wash for 20 seconds, 10 seconds, 20, 30 and so on, I use around 6 grams to 120 ml gaiwan. I have a Chao Zhou teapot too. I need a CZ tea kettle, and I am well equipped for Dancong.




I find these to be interesting observations. I agree with the changes with roasting levels. However I do find many Phoenix DC's have either a floral flavor or a stone fruit aroma. These include some of Imen's private stash. You are fortunate to have had it brewed by her. I would love to have that experience. For most I usually use 5-6 grams in a 110 ml pot with short brew times.

Hojo wrote when I bought some of his tea and reminded me many times to brew in a porcelain gaiwan. (Nice he is so responsive and passionate.) Still have yet to brew it.
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Re: Dan Cong - is it really that naturally floral...?

Postby Tead Off » Nov 26th, '11, 00:01

BioHorn wrote:
wh&yel-apprentice wrote:
Oni wrote: it should be kept under 10 seconds for first 4 brews, and it lasts a long time 10 + or even more brews



If find, roasting levels + oxidation levels make a big difference in perception---no matter where the tea comes from.

As a fanatically demanding fruit taster, probably one of the most severely selective on the planet, I don't find "peachy" or "apricot" fruity aromas in any of the DC's I tried so far, which includes more than a dozen or so that Imen brewed for me at her old Tea Habitat store.


Oni wrote:I generally brew Dancong with short timing, like after a short wash for 20 seconds, 10 seconds, 20, 30 and so on, I use around 6 grams to 120 ml gaiwan. I have a Chao Zhou teapot too. I need a CZ tea kettle, and I am well equipped for Dancong.




I find these to be interesting observations. I agree with the changes with roasting levels. However I do find many Phoenix DC's have either a floral flavor or a stone fruit aroma. These include some of Imen's private stash. You are fortunate to have had it brewed by her. I would love to have that experience. For most I usually use 5-6 grams in a 110 ml pot with short brew times.

Hojo wrote when I bought some of his tea and reminded me many times to brew in a porcelain gaiwan. (Nice he is so responsive and passionate.) Still have yet to brew it.

In one of the other Dancong threads, Tim pointed out the higher level DC's are not roasted. This can be verified by the look and color of the wet leaves after brewing.

As for the flavors that one can experience from good DC tea, almond and peach are definitely in the repertoire. Naming a taste is always going to be subjective based on a person's chemistry and past experience. For the poster who doesn't experience these flavors, shall we say 'we're sorry'. :D
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Re: Dan Cong - is it really that naturally floral...?

Postby Oni » Nov 26th, '11, 09:13

wh&yel-apprentice wrote:Uh completely disagree on that. I taste similiar flavors in green tea, and Taiwanese oolong, how much oxidation plays an important part. Wuyi don't have a distinct mineral flavour, though if you believe Hojo, certain Taiwanese high altitude, certain old bush Dan Cong Phoenix Mtn, certain high mtn Wuyi, all have higher mineral content.


Wu Yi has a distinct mineral flavour, if you drink any kind of real yancha, you can notice this flavour. And believe Hojo, he has a university diploma in food science, and everybody knows that highmountain tea is better, old bush is better.
P.S. Even the wu yi cultivars planted elsewhere have a certain rock mineral mouthfeel and rock taste, ever Bai Ji Guan.
About brewing Dancongs, well this year I tried 4 of Imen`s private stash oolongs, and I also have a CZ teapot from her, and I tried Dancongs in a ll my teaware, and I really prefer to brew it in a gaiwan, Chao Zhou clay steals aroma somehow, it is smooth but so less aromatic, and I need the heavy parfume of a Dancong.
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