plastics and hot water?


Completely off the Topic of Tea

Re: plastics and hot water?

Postby Poohblah » Apr 8th, '12, 15:59

Stentor wrote:
entropyembrace wrote:Besides...why is plastic such a huge pollution problem?

Because it doesn´t break down easily...

meaning...plastic is very stable

meaning...it´s extremely difficult for plastics to actually get into your body.


That logic is unfortunately very flawed.

Do you want to explain how it's flawed? Because ee's logic looks pretty solid to me.
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Re: plastics and hot water?

Postby Stentor » Apr 8th, '12, 16:18

Poohblah wrote:
Stentor wrote:
entropyembrace wrote:Besides...why is plastic such a huge pollution problem?

Because it doesn´t break down easily...

meaning...plastic is very stable

meaning...it´s extremely difficult for plastics to actually get into your body.


That logic is unfortunately very flawed.

Do you want to explain how it's flawed? Because ee's logic looks pretty solid to me.


Well, yeah, I agree, if that was all there was to it, the logic would be correct.
Unfortunately it is much more complex and we can't draw conclusions so simply (one way or the other, I guess).
Something not breaking down for a long time doesn't mean it is not losing parts of itself and causing harm along the way. (This here is the biggest flaw.)

There are very different kinds of plastics. Some safer than others, some very harmful (one that everybody knows is PVC) and some are appropriate for uses for which others are not.

And apparently it is very easy for plastic to get into our bodies. In fact it is practically certain that all of us who are talking about it right now have it in our bloodstreams right now.
Apparently it is in all the plastic wrapped food, leading some people to consider the packaging manufacturers to be the biggest producers of "food additives".

It seems to be a real problem. If we should freak out about it, I don't know and I don't. Should we try to live with less of the stuff? Probably.

I'm just saying what I have read/seen about the topic, I'm not a chemist or biologist and have not done related research myself :)
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Re: plastics and hot water?

Postby entropyembrace » Apr 8th, '12, 18:21

Stentor wrote:
Poohblah wrote:
Stentor wrote:
entropyembrace wrote:Besides...why is plastic such a huge pollution problem?

Because it doesn´t break down easily...

meaning...plastic is very stable

meaning...it´s extremely difficult for plastics to actually get into your body.


That logic is unfortunately very flawed.

Do you want to explain how it's flawed? Because ee's logic looks pretty solid to me.


Well, yeah, I agree, if that was all there was to it, the logic would be correct.
Unfortunately it is much more complex and we can't draw conclusions so simply (one way or the other, I guess).
Something not breaking down for a long time doesn't mean it is not losing parts of itself and causing harm along the way. (This here is the biggest flaw.)



I wrote that more as an addition to my previous post to the counter the omg-my-plastic-keyboard-is-going-to-kill-me hysteria than as something to stand alone.
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Re: plastics and hot water?

Postby Lerxst2112 » Apr 9th, '12, 07:28

Stentor wrote:
entropyembrace wrote:Besides...why is plastic such a huge pollution problem?

Because it doesn´t break down easily...

meaning...plastic is very stable

meaning...it´s extremely difficult for plastics to actually get into your body.


That logic is unfortunately very flawed.


Agreed. Not only that, but you're talking about plastic that is just lying around. The discussion is about heating that plastic - in the case of kettles, possibly 200+ degrees. One never knows what is going on at the microscopic level. Some plastics will melt, warp, etc. Most will probably start leaching chemicals - most notably phthalates which are added to the plastic - and are the endocrine disruptor mentioned a few posts up. Happily enough, these additives *shouldn't* be in water bottles, but other things? Who knows?
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Re: plastics and hot water?

Postby entropyembrace » Apr 9th, '12, 17:28

Lerxst2112 wrote:Agreed. Not only that, but you're talking about plastic that is just lying around. The discussion is about heating that plastic - in the case of kettles, possibly 200+ degrees.


my first post was more about kettles...and I said it´s an easy area to remove plastic from your life so why not do it if you´re worried.

second post was about keyboards...which are just sitting around :lol:
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Re: plastics and hot water?

Postby AbcTea » Apr 9th, '12, 21:44

the keyboard thing was a joke... sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet i guess...

checked out that documentary, it wouldn't surprise me if corporations tried to cover up the negative effects of plastics in the way of the environment or health. that being said i don't feel like they presented both sides(as they often do not in documentaries) and i dont even feel the host had a good idea of what he was talking about... i think he also might have some kind of plastic fetish :?

i would like to see a more scientific view of the issue; although that video was sufficient enough to make me rethink use of plastic in some areas of life( ie foodcontainers, cups, plates and ofc teaware)
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Re: plastics and hot water?

Postby Xell » Apr 11th, '12, 10:12

The idea about plastic somehow reminds me about one saying in Russia. It's somethings like this, after drinking whole day and whole night, in the morning someone eats relatively harmless thing like a cookie and then says "i got poisoned by a cookie" while going through with all what comes after drinking a lot :)

There are far too many "potentially dangerous" things in our modern life. I think there is a point in removing something like plastic from your life once you go through removing other habits and stuff that does harm you and it's already proven. Such as smoking, drinking, eating too much junk food or just bad diet, no exercising, living in huge city with lots of cars, etc., etc.

I don't mind using plastic as long as it doesn't add any smell to food or water. If plastic comes in contact with hot water i won't use plastic, that is not designed for it. I.e. if it's says up to 80C, i won't use it for holding boiling water.
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Re: plastics and hot water?

Postby paul haigh » Apr 19th, '12, 10:12

Plastics "breaking down" is not necessarily the main route for related chemicals to enter the body. Breaking down implies actual chemical decomposition. Increase in crosslinkage leading to more brittle plastic that disintegrates is a good example.

Leaching is one of the more immediate concerns. There are a number of byproduct chemicals that are not necessary for the plastic to function, such as mold release agents. Other chemicals are present as modifiers that are needed, but may leach out.

A recent study of BPA shows that even huge levels ingested will not lead to an issue because of the great efficiency of our digestive system to destroy it.

Does that mean that plastics are good or bad? No. I choose to avoid it when possible for a number of environmental reasons- bothe environmeental fate as well as the footprint necessary for production. I also prefer certain other materials for less tangible qualities.
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Re: plastics and hot water?

Postby silverneedles » Apr 28th, '12, 23:57

Xell wrote:The idea about plastic somehow reminds me about one saying in Russia. It's somethings like this, after drinking whole day and whole night, in the morning someone eats relatively harmless thing like a cookie and then says "i got poisoned by a cookie" while going through with all what comes after drinking a lot :)

There are far too many "potentially dangerous" things in our modern life. I think there is a point in removing something like plastic from your life once you go through removing other habits and stuff that does harm you and it's already proven. Such as smoking, drinking, eating too much junk food or just bad diet, no exercising, living in huge city with lots of cars, etc., etc.

I don't mind using plastic as long as it doesn't add any smell to food or water. If plastic comes in contact with hot water i won't use plastic, that is not designed for it. I.e. if it's says up to 80C, i won't use it for holding boiling water.


^ +1
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Re: plastics and hot water?

Postby beecrofter » Apr 29th, '12, 13:28

Google up "endocrine disruptor" and see if you remain happy about plastics and heat .
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Re: plastics and hot water?

Postby silverneedles » Apr 29th, '12, 20:10

google up "polluted air"
i dont see you wearing an air purifier.
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Re: plastics and hot water?

Postby Chip » Apr 29th, '12, 20:23

People focus on things that seem important to them ... sometimes it is in a moment of time, sometimes it is a lifetime.

How we choose would be a study all in its own. I have gone through some pretty radical periods of avoidance in my life, though most were likely a case of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.

But I wonder too ... does my body in conjunction with my mind somehow direct my choices at times ... directing towards what my body needs or should avoid. Then it is our choice to follow or disregard.

This theory can be as full of holes as a sasame kyusu screen ... except the holes would have to be much larger. :twisted:
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Re: plastics and hot water?

Postby beecrofter » Apr 30th, '12, 12:23

silverneedles wrote:google up "polluted air"
i dont see you wearing an air purifier.



Actually I wore a respirator most of the time while working.
And your specious comment does not consider that I can choose to not use plastics in heated applications while what the wind brings is a bit beyond my control.
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