yuuki-cha vs dens. Trying to find a good green tea vendor!


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Re: yuuki-cha vs dens. Trying to find a good green tea vendor!

Postby Cagan » Apr 25th, '12, 21:35

We like to drink a lot of tea. Is it bad for the tea to use 16 oz and just use more scoops? Or should we brew two seperate pots? Its not a cast iron one - its a ceramic pot. Here is a link to what we bought in the store http://www.teavana.com/tea-products/tea ... teapot-set. We are reading your pm now!

PS. The sencha that we really like the flavor of is the fuka midori in the dens sampler. That's the type of flavors we like. Isn't there a way to boil / make where tea is less bitter and more sweet? Thanks!
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Re: yuuki-cha vs dens. Trying to find a good green tea vendor!

Postby Poohblah » Apr 25th, '12, 21:47

oh yes, I have seen that style of pot around. You can make more tea, but at 16 oz, you'll end up with a LOT of tea. if you have three steepings of sencha or more, you'll end up having liters of tea. That's a lot of hot tea, especially for something that's meant to be savored, and you'll spend $20 every time you want to fill it up with gyokuro. The japanese and japanese-style vessels that are popular for brewing japanese greens are not usually larger than 300mL, which I think is around 11oz?

What you can do instead is use less water in the same pot, i.e., don't fill it all the way to the top. But if that pot has a drop-in mesh filter basket, as I suspect it does, that won't work.

key to better sencha: cool water, short steepings. It seems to me that, in general, a good Chinese tea can sit in water for a long time without getting bitter, providing the water is not too hot, but the same isn't true of fukamushi sencha.
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Re: yuuki-cha vs dens. Trying to find a good green tea vendor!

Postby Cagan » Apr 25th, '12, 22:08

AdamMY wrote: I for one am not sure why the only two they considered were Yuuki-cha and Den's, as they are companies I would rather not deal with personally, and there are many others I would like to try before I circle back around to either of those vendors. One thing I will say I liked from the order I shared with someone from Yuuki-cha is some of their teas are offered in 100gram orders, but they come in 2x 50 gram bags which makes splitting an order between two people easy, if you wish to sample their teas. I also think Dens is a great place if you are just starting out and do not have a lot of money to spend on Teaware, or you are in the United States, and want to get your tea quickly without paying a lot in shipping.


So you're saying that Den's isn't of the highest quality? Dens prices seem to be in line with everyone elses, right? Id rather spend more money and get higher quality tea, as I've stated.

Also, pooh, what we do is make one 16 oz pot of tea with the first steeping and each drink an 8 oz cup. Then the next morning we steep it again. I savor it, but I really love tea! People are talking a lot about different meshes - which should we get? Is there a teapot you'd recommend for me as well? Thanks!
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Re: yuuki-cha vs dens. Trying to find a good green tea vendor!

Postby Poohblah » Apr 25th, '12, 22:13

There's a whole forum about teapots! :mrgreen: Check out the kyusu thread, those pots are the usual vessels for japanese green teas, especially sencha.

Keeping leaves overnight is sometimes ok, I think others have more to say about that. I think maybe best to resteep right away... perhaps resteep and store in the fridge for later? :D

Don't jump for a teapot right away, there's a lot to learn about pots... I'm still working with my $12 tokoname teapot that I got in japan a year ago :)

Den's seems like a fantastic place to start, I've never bought from there though
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Re: yuuki-cha vs dens. Trying to find a good green tea vendor!

Postby Cagan » Apr 25th, '12, 22:21

I'm looking at O-Cha too. They seem to be incredible too. Theyre more expensive. Is it worth it?

EDIT: http://www.o-cha.com/green-tea/asamushi-sencha.html

We really like the taste of the Fukamidori. Do these premium senchas like the one from the link I posted taste like that but just higher quality? Thats sort of the taste direction we're going in.
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Re: yuuki-cha vs dens. Trying to find a good green tea vendor!

Postby Tead Off » Apr 25th, '12, 22:44

AdamMY wrote:
Tead Off wrote:Lighten up, Chip. We all get it. Remember the old Abbot & Costello routine when one of them heard a certain name or word, he would suddenly become deadly serious and say, 'slowly I turned, step by step' with a murderous look on his face.


I suggest you take your own advice. Somehow every time Chip mentions this you insist on getting in this flame war with him. Even if most people are saying favorable things about Yuuki-cha, clearly the person asking the question would like to have all of the facts, and can decide what they want to do for themselves. I think what Chip does is completely called for and acceptable, the people are coming here asking for advice, and Chip is just saying, be careful, this vendor has in the past acted unscrupulously. While your mileage may vary, who knows if you will set him off to act in such a way. I feel its probably best for you to just voice your opinion in support of Yuuki-cha, and let all honest feedback be given, and then let the person asking the question decide for themselves.

Adam, there is a thread for vendors on Teachat. Everything you see here has been hashed through on there. Is there a vendor that exists that has never had a difficult experience with a customer in their history? The odds are that occasionally disagreements happen. Why do we have to re-hash all of this with our various opinions once again? My intention was to only have some humor about this not to belittle or flame Chip. I don't know why anyone would take exception to what I said.
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Re: yuuki-cha vs dens. Trying to find a good green tea vendor!

Postby AdamMY » Apr 25th, '12, 23:09

Tead Off wrote:Adam, there is a thread for vendors on Teachat. Everything you see here has been hashed through on there. Is there a vendor that exists that has never had a difficult experience with a customer in their history? The odds are that occasionally disagreements happen. Why do we have to re-hash all of this with our various opinions once again? My intention was to only have some humor about this not to belittle or flame Chip. I don't know why anyone would take exception to what I said.



Yes, you are right about the vendor forum on the forum, but the person asked the question specifically. If people are justified giving positive remarks then Chip is surely justified in giving his negative remarks. Otherwise anytime a person asks a question about vendors who have feedback on the Vendor Forum, someone should just post a link to that forum and lock the thread. Making some sort of arbitrary rule that only good feed back is allowed to be given outside of the vendor feedback forum is absurd. Especially since you only seem to be taking offense when chip speaks bad about Yuuki, and have no problem with people speaking badly about any other vendor.



Cagan wrote:
AdamMY wrote: I for one am not sure why the only two they considered were Yuuki-cha and Den's, as they are companies I would rather not deal with personally, and there are many others I would like to try before I circle back around to either of those vendors. One thing I will say I liked from the order I shared with someone from Yuuki-cha is some of their teas are offered in 100gram orders, but they come in 2x 50 gram bags which makes splitting an order between two people easy, if you wish to sample their teas. I also think Dens is a great place if you are just starting out and do not have a lot of money to spend on Teaware, or you are in the United States, and want to get your tea quickly without paying a lot in shipping.


So you're saying that Den's isn't of the highest quality? Dens prices seem to be in line with everyone elses, right? Id rather spend more money and get higher quality tea, as I've stated.


Dens has the issue of trying to maintain a quality store full of Japanese products with a short life span, in the United states. It is quite costly, as Kevin from O-cha who is a member on the forum can tell you, to try and maintain freshness but consistently be receiving, storing and sending out product, from a distance so far away. I am not saying Dens had bad tea, only that, I have felt quite a few of the ones I have tried from elsewhere have been better.
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Re: yuuki-cha vs dens. Trying to find a good green tea vendor!

Postby Peacock » Apr 25th, '12, 23:27

Cagan wrote:I'm looking at O-Cha too. They seem to be incredible too. Theyre more expensive. Is it worth it?

EDIT: http://www.o-cha.com/green-tea/asamushi-sencha.html

We really like the taste of the Fukamidori. Do these premium senchas like the one from the link I posted taste like that but just higher quality? Thats sort of the taste direction we're going in.


O-cha has some wonderful teas too. The price is more reflective of other factors rather than how "high quality" it is I assume.

Cagan, you are referring to this particular tea right? http://www.denstea.com/sencha-sencha-fukamidori-725-c-70_90.html
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Re: yuuki-cha vs dens. Trying to find a good green tea vendor!

Postby Cagan » Apr 25th, '12, 23:45

Peacock wrote:
Cagan wrote:I'm looking at O-Cha too. They seem to be incredible too. Theyre more expensive. Is it worth it?

EDIT: http://www.o-cha.com/green-tea/asamushi-sencha.html

We really like the taste of the Fukamidori. Do these premium senchas like the one from the link I posted taste like that but just higher quality? Thats sort of the taste direction we're going in.


O-cha has some wonderful teas too. The price is more reflective of other factors rather than how "high quality" it is I assume.

Cagan, you are referring to this particular tea right? http://www.denstea.com/sencha-sencha-fukamidori-725-c-70_90.html


That was the first sample that we tried in the Den's sampler and we really liked it. Yes. I keep reading conflicting things here - almost like people are beating around the bush. I feel like people are saying that Den's is a good place to "start" - almost like its not at the same level as O-cha or some other places. I just want to get the best stuff (within reason) that I can! Especially if the prices aren't much different :) I might order a few from different places and get a glimpse.
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Re: yuuki-cha vs dens. Trying to find a good green tea vendor!

Postby Chip » Apr 25th, '12, 23:58

Ah yes, this is tea drinkers for you, always beating around the tea bush! :mrgreen:

Den's has a fairly wide range level of teas. The top ones like Zuiko are quite good, IMHO. I personally may not be a fan of the lower grade ones, but I am sure they are worth a try! You should also try their Guricha!

O-Cha selects higher grade teas and the price is reflective of this. But they also offer some of the "highest value" teas meaning that many are a bargain for what you get. They offer a very nice range and variety of teas. Yutaka Midori is ... famous. Also, since you mentioned gyokuro, they have outstanding range of gyokuro. Check them out and feel free to ask specific questions.

Certainly try various teas from various vendors (not all at once though). Variety is the spice of life.

And at the end of the day, you must decide ... then drink what you like, like what you drink!
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Re: yuuki-cha vs dens. Trying to find a good green tea vendor!

Postby Kevangogh » Apr 26th, '12, 00:08

I really don't know how Den's operates, but it theoretically would be possible for them to import large amounts of fresh tea, have it refrigerated during shipment, then stored in the USA under the same refrigerated conditions that exist in Japan. Then they could pull it as needed. They may be doing that, not sure. If I were to ever operate from the USA again, that would be the only feasible way to do it in this business environment. What I can say is that very few vendors outside of Japan are doing this so if Dens does it, they would be the exception to the rule. I haven't heard bad things about them so my guess is they are doing something along those lines.

When I used to operate from the USA many years ago, there were very few competitors and I would have it shipped in from Japan weekly, but the exchange rate was 125 yen to $1 at that time, not 80 yen to $1 it is now. I think that business model is pretty much dead now.
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Re: yuuki-cha vs dens. Trying to find a good green tea vendor!

Postby Chip » Apr 26th, '12, 00:35

TeadOff, it is because of posts like yours, I guess I have to keep repeating myself.

There was no disagreement. Disagreement implies two sides not agreeing.

Yuuki-Cha snuck onto the forum, PMed me disguised as a "newbie" asking for my opinion/comparison on a few teas from Yuuki-Cha and from O-Cha. He obviously did not like what I had to say. :lol: But I felt I was being honest, informative, and tactful in my response.

And the blackballing, withholding my funds, refusing to answer my emails, etc. began. During this extended period of time, I contacted Yuuki-Cha numerous times endeavoring to patch things up and then ultimately after withholding hundreds of my dollars, asking for explanation.

The fact that I never received a single reply leaves me to conclude this vendor has the propensity to repeat the action with someone else. There is and never was remorse.

Since this vendor withheld hundreds of dollars from my orders and never replied to my numerous emails, etc., I am well within my right to hold them accountable to this day.

So, we should constantly "rehash" only the good stuff?

And you knew exactly what you were doing. You were trying to get me to show my dark side by mocking and antagonizing me. And basically lying about my motives/emotional state. Using terms like vendetta, anger, grudge, murderous face ... telling me to get help on an open forum, how insensitive and insulting.

I saw no humor in these comments. I felt you were mocking and borderline harrrassing another member. And I told you so, yet you persisted. Had you done this to another member, I would have privately issued a warning or two.

But mods have to have thick skin, right?

This is a forum, there will be disagreements. I am cool with that. But conducting ourselves as fellow tea drinkers should be paramount to our discussions.
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Re: yuuki-cha vs dens. Trying to find a good green tea vendor!

Postby Xell » Apr 26th, '12, 00:55

To OP

You won't be disappointed with any vendor you pick (as long as tea is delivered :)), if you can get reliable information about harvest time and where it was picked you're good to go. Every other piece of information also helps, but i think those two i mention are most important. Don't have to mention about type of tea, don't think anyone still uses "japanese green tea" for everything :lol: And if you don't have experience with high grade japanese teas also i would suggest not to run after top if money is an issue, bottom to middle level first flush is already usually really good. Since you need some time to get used and top grade teas usually require high concentration to get everything out of them, not everyone likes it right from the start. So it would be kind of waste ;)
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Re: yuuki-cha vs dens. Trying to find a good green tea vendor!

Postby shinobicha » Apr 26th, '12, 01:13

Cagan,

If you really liked Den's sampler, then there's no reason to doubt that you will like their teas! I have been drinking them for quite a while now, and they are right there among the best. I think the reason TCers suggest starting with Den's is because 1) They are probably the most US friendly (since their shipping is low, prices in USD), 2) The size of their packages is only 2oz, which is easier to drink up before it loses it's freshness, then the standard 100g that most companies who sell from Japan offer, and 3) They are trying to introduce people to Japanese tea who have never had it before. (At least that was my experience). The sampler is the perfect example of that.

However, as much as I'd say that Den's Teas are among my favorite, there are just so many good vendors out there that are worth trying, and in the end, you may prefer them. For myself, while I still order from Den's, I've found that 2oz isn't actually enough tea, and I run out too quickly, so I prefer ordering 100g at a time. And once you are drinking 100g packages at a time, it actually becomes more cost efficient.

If you didn't already know this...after you order the sampler, they will give you a $3 discount (automatically, no coupon code needed) to your next order, as well.

However, like I said, there are many good vendors out there, so if you choose someone else you find recommended here in TC, there's a good chance you won't be disappointed.
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Re: yuuki-cha vs dens. Trying to find a good green tea vendor!

Postby shinobicha » Apr 26th, '12, 01:19

Kevangogh wrote:I really don't know how Den's operates, but it theoretically would be possible for them to import large amounts of fresh tea, have it refrigerated during shipment, then stored in the USA under the same refrigerated conditions that exist in Japan. Then they could pull it as needed. They may be doing that, not sure. If I were to ever operate from the USA again, that would be the only feasible way to do it in this business environment. What I can say is that very few vendors outside of Japan are doing this so if Dens does it, they would be the exception to the rule. I haven't heard bad things about them so my guess is they are doing something along those lines.

When I used to operate from the USA many years ago, there were very few competitors and I would have it shipped in from Japan weekly, but the exchange rate was 125 yen to $1 at that time, not 80 yen to $1 it is now. I think that business model is pretty much dead now.


Kevan,

On their website, Den's Tea explains they buy from their own parent company. There is a good chance that is the reason why they can make it work (importing refrigerated shipments, cold storage, dealing with 80 to 1 exchange rate). However, if you go to the parent co.'s website, the prices are cheaper if you buy direct. I can see how running it from Japan like you do would be a lot more efficient and cost effective though, you just can't do tea seminars and trade shows and be as 'present'. Then again, I'm sure you have a more international customer base as well. So there are obvious trade-offs...
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