The unofficial/official Korean Teaware Topic


Discussion on virtually any teaware related item.

Re: The unofficial/official Korean Teaware Topic

Postby Tead Off » May 5th, '12, 10:56

TIM wrote:
Tead Off wrote:
TIM wrote:
Tead Off wrote:Good choice! Onggi is an overlooked clay.


Great that we share some similar interest. Onggi means vessel, jar or lidded jar. So different area have different clay and glaze. Just so you know.


The word onggi is used in various contexts. I have never seen onggi defined as vessel, jar, or, lidded jar, but within a certain context, it can refer to these things. When I ask Seong il what does onggi mean, he says earthenware. It can also mean the tradition of making earthenware storage jars. These jars, made by onggi potters, use a different technique in building these jars than most other traditions.

The clay used for onggi production is iron-rich clay with a mixture of mud and sand. There are different sources for this type of clay throughout Korea. Not all onggi clays are the same but they share some common characteristics. They are particularly good for aging(fermenting) food because of their mineral structure and firing. The glazing is used to make them waterproof, otherwise, they are too porous.

In Seong il's case, his onggi teaware uses a mixture of stoneware so it can be fired at a higher temperature and glazed with shino. This takes care of the leaking that would occur and gives more possibilities for artistic interpretation and interesting glazing effects.

Hope this helps clarify a bit for those unfamiliar with this tradition/clay/usage. I'm sure I'm leaving lots of details out but just trying for a general explanation.


You lost me there again Tead... when you said onggi is a clay.

You are interpreting the meaning of onggi, not translating the word onggi. Onggi in Korean means vessel or Jar. That's when most problems occur when a foreigner try to personally injects an idea to Asian Art, eg: Yixing Zisha.

Here are some of my research towards this subject. The core of Korean art is humbling, functional and simplicity. Shino is a mere shadow of a off spring of Korean pottery imho.

http://themandarinstea.blogspot.com/2009/05/onggi.html

http://www.adamfieldpottery.com/Gallery.htm#Onggi.html

http://youtu.be/twgJ6ZGYrT8


Everything I mentioned in my post paraphrases what Seong il has told me about onggi. Did I say that onggi was a clay? Or, did I say that there are many sources of clay used for onggi production?

You have not shown any translation of the word onggi. You have just said it means vessel. Yet, when I ask Seong il what does the word onggi mean, he says earthenware. He is a native Korean and has studied with the onggi master Lee in Boseong whom I think you are familiar with. You, who are Chinese, would also be considered a foreigner in Korea. Does this mean that you would also have difficulty understanding what a word like onggi means?

Seong il is not a traditional onggi potter. But he uses the same clay that onggi potters use then does some alteration to suit his own artistic vision. Is he somewhat lowered in your eyes? It sounds like it.

I am only passing on what has been told to me. Isn't that what you are doing? I really don't understand your point.
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Re: The unofficial/official Korean Teaware Topic

Postby TIM » May 5th, '12, 11:26

Tead Off wrote:
Good choice! Onggi is an overlooked clay.

This is how this conversation started.
And my wife is Korean. So it's not a interputation, but a direct translation from my side 甕器. You?

I don't disrespect Artist, specially Seong. Their interputation of their art is pure and sincere to themselves. But I do disregard Art Vendor who sells them, most of the time how a vendor hard sell or even lie about the item for just a sale!
No True, just make up believes. I F ing Lowered eye them! Clear and simple. You? Or would you like me to give you an example?
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Re: The unofficial/official Korean Teaware Topic

Postby Tead Off » May 5th, '12, 12:29

Okay, that is more clear. Technically, you are correct and I did say Onggi is an overlooked clay. What I was referring to was the clay that is used to make onggi pottery. When I ask him which clay did you use for a particular item like a tea tray, he would say onggi clay. When I sell a teapot and call it onggi clay, I am not trying to pretend it is a traditional onggi production. I am only describing the clay used to make the teaware. Do you think I am lying?

Is Seong il not Korean? Is his translation not correct but your wife who is probably not a potter but is Korean, correct? I still can't understand your point. My wife is Chinese, does this mean everything she says is absolutely correct about everything?

This is a silly conversation. I am merely passing on information, not trying to fool anyone. If I am incorrect about something, point to a legitimate source of information that spells it out like a dictionary.
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Re: The unofficial/official Korean Teaware Topic

Postby TIM » May 5th, '12, 13:05

Tead Off wrote:Okay, that is more clear. Technically, you are correct and I did say Onggi is an overlooked clay. What I was referring to was the clay that is used to make onggi pottery. When I ask him which clay did you use for a particular item like a tea tray, he would say onggi clay. When I sell a teapot and call it onggi clay, I am not trying to pretend it is a traditional onggi production. I am only describing the clay used to make the teaware. Do you think I am lying?


Ignorance is worst than lying. For a Korean pottery vendor like yourself, selling a teapot and you call it onggi clay, which you are applying an idea, or interpretation, pretending of a tradition to your item. That is not a fact but a sales pitch. A vendor shall have full responsibility for the item they describe and sell. If you are selling something green, it should be green. If you are selling an onggi, it should be an onggi. Do you agree?

Tead Off wrote:Is Seong il not Korean? Is his translation not correct but your wife who is probably not a potter but is Korean, correct? I still can't understand your point. My wife is Chinese, does this mean everything she says is absolutely correct about everything?


Seong il is Korean, are you mocking the artist you represent? He might not be perfectly comfortable to translate all his idea from Korean to English to a vendor like you. That does not mean he is incorrect, but it is you who needs to educate yourself in the Asian culture, this advice is coming from the Chinese side of me. And how dare you disrespect and interpret what my wife background is? And how fluent she might be in both Korean, English and even Chinese culture!? I trusted her knowledge and translation more than you trusted yours? BTW, Korean onggi was mastered when the time Korean written language was still in Chinese character.

Tead Off wrote:This is a silly conversation. I am merely passing on information, not trying to fool anyone. If I am incorrect about something, point to a legitimate source of information that spells it out like a dictionary.


Most conversations I had with you is quite silly, because the mere passing on the wrong information and fooling any newbies here. You have a very talented way of getting under one's skin, and does so in a passive aggressive manner that is so condescending and offensive. Even when most of the oldies here offered you an olive branch.

ps. Just the other day you tried to say MarshalN did not know his Chinese history. How Pathetic. A foreigner in Thailand knows better than Harvard Doctor in Chinese History, studying in Beijing and Hong Kong?

Sorry to drag you in Professor.
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Re: The unofficial/official Korean Teaware Topic

Postby Tead Off » May 5th, '12, 14:30

I'm really sorry to see how you've twisted all of this into something it is not. I've never represented any of the teaware I sell as traditional onggi ware. The stuff I sell is made with the same clay but altered to suit the artistic pursuit of the artist. The clay still has the same properties no matter what you call it and I've never intentionally tried to mislead anyone.

Maybe you should inspect your own indignation and accusations and what you are really trying to say. What is really motivating you in this conversation? Try not to drag others into it. You don't need to defend anyone. If you have a personal problem with me, why not tell me in a PM? I think you have seriously misunderstood what I was trying to say.
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Re: The unofficial/official Korean Teaware Topic

Postby TIM » May 5th, '12, 14:47

Tead Off wrote:I'm really sorry to see how you've twisted all of this into something it is not. I've never represented any of the teaware I sell as traditional onggi ware. The stuff I sell is made with the same clay but altered to suit the artistic pursuit of the artist. The clay still has the same properties no matter what you call it and I've never intentionally tried to mislead anyone.

Maybe you should inspect your own indignation and accusations and what you are really trying to say. What is really motivating you in this conversation? Try not to drag others into it. You don't need to defend anyone. If you have a personal problem with me, why not tell me in a PM? I think you have seriously misunderstood what I was trying to say.


...What I was referring to was the clay that is used to make onggi pottery. When I ask him which clay did you use for a particular item like a tea tray, he would say onggi clay. When I sell a teapot and call it onggi clay, I am not trying to pretend it is a traditional onggi production.


I'm very clear on my position. You posted an incorrect representation on a subject I started. I corrected you. You insisted on your misinterpretation of it and drag in your artist to it. I correct you again. Clear and simple in the open. The way a New Yorker do in calling out bogus. I prefer to do it not in a pm, nothing to hide. Clear? Again, I can take this much deeper if you decide to carry on.

Tead Off wrote:
Good choice! Onggi is an overlooked clay.
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Re: The unofficial/official Korean Teaware Topic

Postby chrl42 » May 5th, '12, 20:56

While Onggi itself means 'vessel', it's outstanding ability of storage of due to its special clay used..gentlemen. I sure need to know the correct knowledges about teawares in my own Korea.

Onggi's outstanding porosity and practical sides are very well-known, more and more Koreans give attention to Onggi, it's the most traditional vessel used for storage dating back to BC, some Korean Puerh drinkers use Onggi to store Puerh, thought it was outstanding choice..
Last edited by chrl42 on May 5th, '12, 21:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The unofficial/official Korean Teaware Topic

Postby TIM » May 5th, '12, 21:18

Besides the clay, the key to an onggi outstanding ability to fermated content is the dark glaze that make of ash. That let the vessel breath.
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Re: The unofficial/official Korean Teaware Topic

Postby Kenneth Son » May 9th, '12, 03:06

I'm new to TeaChat, so I'm not sure whether this topic still valid or not. Anyway I'll start write about Korean pottery. Many Korean pottery are made by hand and it has quite simple and natural look. It also tends to last very long.(May be because of thick wall and high quality porcelain). I love fine crazing on surface of many Korean pottery. As time goes by, fine crazing make my teapot looks like a antique.
Attatched picture is tea set with 5 cups, teapot, and Sookwoo(hot water cooler, similar to Japanese Yuzamashi). Image
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Re: The unofficial/official Korean Teaware Topic

Postby hopeofdawn » May 9th, '12, 11:54

I like your tea set--it's very classic and elegant! And of course, I'm always a sucker for celadon ... :)
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Re: The unofficial/official Korean Teaware Topic

Postby MIKE_B » May 9th, '12, 17:33

ZentealifeCom wrote:I'm new to TeaChat, so I'm not sure whether this topic still valid or not. Anyway I'll start write about Korean pottery. Many Korean pottery are made by hand and it has quite simple and natural look. It also tends to last very long.(May be because of thick wall and high quality porcelain). I love fine crazing on surface of many Korean pottery. As time goes by, fine crazing make my teapot looks like a antique.
Attatched picture is tea set with 5 cups, teapot, and Sookwoo(hot water cooler, similar to Japanese Yuzamashi).


Wherever could I find such a tea set???
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Re: The unofficial/official Korean Teaware Topic

Postby Chip » May 9th, '12, 17:37

... obviously from this vendor. :idea:
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Re: The unofficial/official Korean Teaware Topic

Postby TIM » May 9th, '12, 17:45

:lol:
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Re: The unofficial/official Korean Teaware Topic

Postby needaTEAcher » Aug 15th, '12, 02:58

I've seen similar, if not the same, tea sets all over Insadong. Certainly the same style crane-on-celadon in every shop. Zentea, who is your connection in Korea?

I do love it, btw.
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Re: The unofficial/official Korean Teaware Topic

Postby brandon » Sep 28th, '12, 19:29

Ido style guinomi, age unknown.

Image
Last edited by brandon on Sep 29th, '12, 22:13, edited 1 time in total.
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