I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

by **needaTEAcher** » Jul 1st, '12, 11:27

I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

by needaTEAcher » Jul 1st, '12, 11:27

Hello experts on teachat! I need your help! I have 48 hours in this city, so I have to make a decision! Please check out these photos of the outside wrapping and description in Chinese, and shots of two different bings with the authenticity certificates inside.

(Having photo issues. Gonna post this then try again. Please look below!)

I am in Malaysia, and I found a store with way below average prices on their puerh. The guy running the shop doesn't seem to know much about tea or clay. His pots are priced about right, though he doesn't know what's what with the clay.

He has what he claims to be a 1999 Menghai 7542 going for much lower than it should be. I asked why, and he said it is because the local economy can't support expensive tea like Kuala Lumpur, so even though it is old they haven't raised the price much. He says it has been stored in Malaysia the whole time.

It looks right in the disk and in the cup. The flavor is a clear and classic 7542 taste (I am pretty familiar with this tea, and have had this particular year a few times, but I usually drink it 4 season storage, which is different than Dama/Malaysian storage). I would say it is legit and snap it up, but the flavor seems a bit hollow. Right flavors, but not enough (he brewed it strong too, using a lot of leaves, and it hit the wall only on its 5th infusion), and quite hollow on the aftertaste.

Does this look legit to any of you experts? Can the flaws I tasted be due to bad storage? Can I store it for a decade or two and get it back up to where it should be? SHOULD I BUY IT?!??! Help me please!!!!!!

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!

by **needaTEAcher** » Jul 1st, '12, 11:48

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

by needaTEAcher » Jul 1st, '12, 11:48

Usually I figure if it's too good to be true, it much be, but if this is legit, it is an amazing deal, and as far as I can tell it is legit! Please help me Chinese-Reading-Puerh-Experts!

Attachments

: Bing 2 Inner Cert B.jpg (60.2 KiB) Viewed 1907 times

: 7542 Package.jpg (54.34 KiB) Viewed 1907 times

: Bing 1 Inner Cert.jpg (59.93 KiB) Viewed 1907 times

by **needaTEAcher** » Jul 1st, '12, 11:51

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

by needaTEAcher » Jul 1st, '12, 11:51

Normally it seems people don't post prices, but I will. I have seen this tea in Korea for $300-$700 in different stores, and in Kuala Lumpur for about 2,000 MYR ($630ish), but here it is selling for 180 MYR, which is roughly $55. Scam? Mistake? Deal of the year? Bad storage leading to lower price?

by **Catfur** » Jul 1st, '12, 11:55

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

by Catfur » Jul 1st, '12, 11:55

How does a sample taste?

by **needaTEAcher** » Jul 1st, '12, 12:29

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

by needaTEAcher » Jul 1st, '12, 12:29

It tastes like 7542. To me, that recipe has a distinct potato flavor that is really bitter when younger but yields to a strong sweetness. This tea has it, but the sweetness is a bit hollow, and the aftertaste weaker. And, ultimately, much less complex than I might imagine, but still very, very good.

My biggest concern is how quickly it bottomed out (5 infusions with enough leaves:water for at least

. Could this be because of storage, or because it was not such a good year? Could it be the water or the guy who brewed it? Or the pot?

Also, it tastes younger than a 1999 should, but not by much, and it looks older if anything in the bing and in the cup.

FYI, brewed in decent but not great Qing Su Ni.

by **Drax** » Jul 1st, '12, 12:36

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

by Drax » Jul 1st, '12, 12:36

needaTEAcher wrote:It looks right in the disk and in the cup. The flavor is a clear and classic 7542 taste (I am pretty familiar with this tea, and have had this particular year a few times, but I usually drink it 4 season storage, which is different than Dama/Malaysian storage). I would say it is legit and snap it up, but the flavor seems a bit hollow. Right flavors, but not enough (he brewed it strong too, using a lot of leaves, and it hit the wall only on its 5th infusion), and quite hollow on the aftertaste.

The description of the taste would be right here, no?

In any case, given this description, is it worth $55? I would say that normally a 1999 tea (especially a 7542) shouldn't hit a wall on its 5th infusion, especially if brewed strongly.

The issues you're describing don't seem like ones that will get better with time or better storage conditions, but I don't have any experience there.
I would go less on looks, anyway -- go with your feeling on the taste. If it's worth $55 for a beeng, then grab one!

by **needaTEAcher** » Jul 1st, '12, 12:51

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

by needaTEAcher » Jul 1st, '12, 12:51

I want to get it to invest, in hopes of smoothing it out and making some profit. Maybe even a tong, one for me to drink and the rest to sell later. I don't know yet. Thanks for the input. Y'all rock. Keep the advice rolling!

by **apache** » Jul 1st, '12, 12:52

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

by apache » Jul 1st, '12, 12:52

My very simple rule of thumb is if anything is good, it should never have a hollow after taste. I'm always chasing the after taste or I would not drink pu. Just my 2 cents of opinion.

by **shah82** » Jul 1st, '12, 12:56

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

by shah82 » Jul 1st, '12, 12:56

A good 7542 of that age would not hit the wall in five brews. My 2001 is still waking up after 5 brews, honestly. The 1998 I've had took that time to shake off bitterness. Perhaps it's poorly stored (in the sunlight and air fashion), but it could also be merely a younger fake.

He's certainly right (according to my limited awareness) in that KL does not support an expensive puerh tea market. However, there are still plenty of shops there that do sell puerh tea that costs in the multiples of local monthly wages. I also think it's impossible that someone does not socialize with him and let him know about all the possibilities. Maybe it's not as stupid as an economist ignoring a $20 bill on the ground because it should have been picked up already, but we aren't talking about the difference between whether he's gotta chance to eat out or not. Conservatively, we're talking about something (that's well known and very liquid) that's one third of the price it is elsewheres.

This is almost certainly a fake, so now it comes to as what Drax sez. Does it taste like $55 for a decent cake that you'd drink regularly? It's worthless as an investment, and I doubt it would improve much with with only a little more age.

by **needaTEAcher** » Jul 1st, '12, 13:17

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

by needaTEAcher » Jul 1st, '12, 13:17

They are closed tomorrow, but I think I will go in on Tuesday and ask to make it myself, to make sure.

As per KL, I saw a LOT of high end puerh, it just wasn't priced competitively. KL is the place to go for good new sheng and anything mid-range (especially pots). There are so so so many masters. Once I got hooked into the higher circles I met many shop owners, figured out who was scamming and who was legit, and they SHOWERED me with presents, like a great 2000 Xiaguan 250g brick (part of a set of four: Fu Wu So Shi, in case anyone knows it), or another guy who ave me two 1990s HeiNi Shui Ping Hu pots, one used and one not so I can see and study how the patina changes the pots (they are small and surprisingly nice clay). I miss KL already!

So if I make it, and the aftertaste is hollow, then that is not storage or the tea maker, that is the tea, and it is a fake or a younger year being passed off as older?

by **shah82** » Jul 1st, '12, 16:10

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

by shah82 » Jul 1st, '12, 16:10

An older 7542 will not give explosive huigans, in my experience. It's going to be a soothing alcohol feel with a bit of yun seeping up, much like what some young Jinggu, mainly Yangta, will do. I have no idea what a hollow aftertaste actually means though, so I was guessing huigan? An absent aftertaste at that age is an auto-reject, at the very least, it should coat your mouth. Flavors are nothing in this sort of evaluation, except for immediate drinking (unless it's too quiet--strong brewing might mean he's covering up for what is a quieter-than-it-should-be-tea). Do look for plum tastes much like umeboshi.

How thick is the texture? How round and how bitter is it?

by **needaTEAcher** » Jul 1st, '12, 17:15

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

by needaTEAcher » Jul 1st, '12, 17:15

That last post sounded helpful, but I have to admit I don't know what these words are:
huigans
yun
young Jinggu
Yangta

Can you define them please?

As per the taste, it was thick and full on the front, and did coat my mouth, it just dropped out hollow at the end, and didn't linger the right way. I definitely haven't ever tasted umeboshi in 7542, and I have tried from this year back to 30 years old, and all between (it is a tea my teacher uses to teach me!).

It was thickish, but it didn't make me want to chew, which is one of the signs of good puerh in my mind. It was the rightish amount of bitter for the year stored here in Malaysia, I think, but not round enough maybe. Too bad I can't record the exact flavor and post it!

My wife just had an idea though that maybe I should buy one, take it to Seoul, and compare it side-by-side with an actual 1999 7542, and ask my teacher to help me learn why it is a fake. $55 is an expensive lesson, but a good one!

by **Drax** » Jul 1st, '12, 17:26

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

by Drax » Jul 1st, '12, 17:26

needaTEAcher wrote:My wife just had an idea though that maybe I should buy one, take it to Seoul, and compare it side-by-side with an actual 1999 7542, and ask my teacher to help me learn why it is a fake. $55 is an expensive lesson, but a good one!

This idea sounds quite interesting... or at the least, is better than the investment idea. Will be interested to hear what you learn, if you decide to give it a try...!

by **needaTEAcher** » Jul 1st, '12, 17:30

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

by needaTEAcher » Jul 1st, '12, 17:30

I might ask to buy some of the sample, 50 grams or something, with the idea that I might order more or something...we will see!

Thanks for the help everyone. I think I got the awesome answers I needed.

Please do define those terms though, shah, I am curious to learn!

by **shah82** » Jul 1st, '12, 18:52

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

by shah82 » Jul 1st, '12, 18:52

In my book, huigan is a pungent aftertaste that starts in the throat and rises up in the mouth and nostrils. A yun is an aftertaste that sits in the throat and eases flavors and aromas back into the mouth rather than geyser up.

A classic yangta puerh is described here:
http://half-dipper.blogspot.com/2009/04 ... ercha.html

Here's one you can buy:
http://www.yunnansourcing.com/store/pro ... oduct=1301

well, older jinggu isn't all that common. Before about 2003, they were best known for making very good shu, like in the 70s revolution brick. Much of tea production in Jing Gu (a puerh havesting area to the north of Jingmai) is meant for green or white tea and not puerh. I have had one from 2004, which definitly doesn't do what I described younger Jing Gu to do, but I haven't had many teas younger than 2007.

Virtually all 7542 I've had has some kind of acid/fermented plum note.

Also, this set of reviews of 7542 should be of use to you...

http://half-dipper.blogspot.com/2011/10 ... econd.html