David Lee Hoffman fined $200k


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Re: David Lee Hoffman fined $200k

Postby iovetea » Jul 12th, '12, 14:25

TIM wrote:
tst wrote:Do his teas suck?

I've personally never ordered from him, though I've come close a couple of times. If I remember correctly, I believe the cave shown on the documentary seemed more like a real cave with a large door to keep the teas cool and dark inside. I don't really remember though ...


If you like tea with mold


but that isn't the guy who has a teahouse in los angeles and who claimed that chinese burry all their pu erh????
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Re: David Lee Hoffman fined $200k

Postby fdrx » Jul 12th, '12, 15:07

I find a lot of these comments unnecessarily snarky, hateful and judgmental. I have to ask, why all the negative energy?

+1 :|
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Re: David Lee Hoffman fined $200k

Postby iovetea » Jul 12th, '12, 17:15

fdrx wrote:
I find a lot of these comments unnecessarily snarky, hateful and judgmental. I have to ask, why all the negative energy?

+1 :|


i wasn't being sarcastic, there was a guy on a documentary who had a expensive tea house in los angeles were the rich live. he showed some kind of red pu erh and said he sells it for a few hundred bucks, he said pu erh is all a well kept secret and chinese burry them in the ground and leave them in the earth for 50 years.
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Re: David Lee Hoffman fined $200k

Postby brandon » Jul 12th, '12, 17:29

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Re: David Lee Hoffman fined $200k

Postby BioHorn » Jul 12th, '12, 19:02

Burying their tea?! I think that is some silly secret?! All trapped up at 80% humidity and 55 deg F!
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Re: David Lee Hoffman fined $200k

Postby Bryan_drinks_te... » Jul 12th, '12, 20:12

BioHorn wrote:Burying their tea?! I think that is some silly secret?! All trapped up at 80% humidity and 55 deg F!


BH, I keep my tea close to 80% RH in the warm months with almost no trouble. Not trying to be a contrarian or anything, but I think the high RH storage is a possible option for tea - burying it, though? nahhhhhh. :lol:
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Re: David Lee Hoffman fined $200k

Postby BioHorn » Jul 13th, '12, 01:00

bryan_drinks_tea wrote:
BioHorn wrote:Burying their tea?! I think that is some silly secret?! All trapped up at 80% humidity and 55 deg F!


BH, I keep my tea close to 80% RH in the warm months with almost no trouble. Not trying to be a contrarian or anything, but I think the high RH storage is a possible option for tea - burying it, though? nahhhhhh. :lol:

Sorry. I try to keep sarcasm out of this, but could not help it!

Good to know 80% is working for you. What makes up you pu storage area?
Off topic, but...
In the central valley of Oaxaca there is a special chocolate they bury and water for months. It is quite expensive. Upon digging it out, It comes out smelling awful. After cleaning and drying it is used for special occasions like weddings and makes quite a durable froth.
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Re: David Lee Hoffman fined $200k

Postby TwoDog2 » Jul 13th, '12, 02:58

tenuki wrote:I find a lot of these comments unnecessarily snarky, hateful and judgmental. I have to ask, why all the negative energy?

Getting a court order to raze and vacate your property of 40 years is not something I would wish on anyone, even if they are a bit crazy and very different from me.



Let me attempt to justify my snarky hateful judgment :mrgreen:

a) The property violations are all his own fault. According to the article, "He never got permits for any of his projects. For over two decades, county officials red-tagged his buildings." He ignored local officials for TWENTY YEARS. Whose fault is that? Civilized societies have laws. If you are repeatedly warned by law enforcement to not do something, and do it anyway, it is not some unforeseen tragedy that you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. This is just egotistical, willful disobedience. He said something about how he had a "vision" and "a dream". What a bunch of malarkey. Plenty of people have visions and dreams of a lot of things and manage to build Guggenheim Museums within the confines of the law. Having a dream doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want. If it was some dictator ordering him off of his land and to destroy his legally built property after 40 years, I would have nothing but sympathy for him, even if he is a smarmy jerk.

Which brings me to my second point,

b) The guy is a smarmy jerk. He comes off like a complete idiot. Just watch the first 30 seconds of this video. "I just want to pay him a higher price, to let him know I will pay a high price for high quality tea." He is negotiating with a calculator, in English. How can anyone take him and his 'expertise' seriously? Even the way he is brewing his tea, with far too little amount and too much water to get any idea of the character of the tea he previously bought because of its "aroma" and how "young it is". He just looks like a fool. Am I being judgmental? Yes. Am I comfortable with my judgment. Yes.
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Re: David Lee Hoffman fined $200k

Postby Tead Off » Jul 13th, '12, 03:49

We are happy that you are comfortable with your judgements. Now, can you be happy not making judgements? A very different point of view, no?
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Re: David Lee Hoffman fined $200k

Postby minor_glitch » Jul 13th, '12, 04:47

I actually just watched All in This Tea two nights ago on Netflix. It's clear the man is passionate (obsessive?) about his tea, but I couldn't help but think he might love himself even more than he loves his tea.
I try not to jump to conclusions and for all I know he could be a nice guy, but that one particular movie just felt like it should have been called "Look at me, I'm David Lee Hoffman!"
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Re: David Lee Hoffman fined $200k

Postby Drax » Jul 13th, '12, 06:59

Didn't TIM or somebody run an experiment with a buried chunk of pu'erh?

I vaguely recall the results being.... moldy and disgusting.
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David Lee Hoffman fined $200k

Postby debunix » Jul 13th, '12, 11:08

I was very excited to see "All this in tea", but I stopped watching after 15 or so minutes because the tone was so unpleasant. It suggested a degree of ego necessary to keep building in the face of the repeated red-tagging. I have no idea about the quality of his teas, or his constructions. But to keep it up in the face of repeated run-ins with the local laws--and without any mention that I saw of, say, campaigning to prove the validity of his methods & change the laws, well, that was not wise.
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Re: David Lee Hoffman fined $200k

Postby tst » Jul 13th, '12, 12:11

TwoDog2 wrote:
tenuki wrote:I find a lot of these comments unnecessarily snarky, hateful and judgmental. I have to ask, why all the negative energy?

Getting a court order to raze and vacate your property of 40 years is not something I would wish on anyone, even if they are a bit crazy and very different from me.



Let me attempt to justify my snarky hateful judgment :mrgreen:

a) The property violations are all his own fault. According to the article, "He never got permits for any of his projects. For over two decades, county officials red-tagged his buildings." He ignored local officials for TWENTY YEARS. Whose fault is that? Civilized societies have laws. If you are repeatedly warned by law enforcement to not do something, and do it anyway, it is not some unforeseen tragedy that you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. This is just egotistical, willful disobedience. He said something about how he had a "vision" and "a dream". What a bunch of malarkey. Plenty of people have visions and dreams of a lot of things and manage to build Guggenheim Museums within the confines of the law. Having a dream doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want. If it was some dictator ordering him off of his land and to destroy his legally built property after 40 years, I would have nothing but sympathy for him, even if he is a smarmy jerk.

Which brings me to my second point,

b) The guy is a smarmy jerk. He comes off like a complete idiot. Just watch the first 30 seconds of this video. "I just want to pay him a higher price, to let him know I will pay a high price for high quality tea." He is negotiating with a calculator, in English. How can anyone take him and his 'expertise' seriously? Even the way he is brewing his tea, with far too little amount and too much water to get any idea of the character of the tea he previously bought because of its "aroma" and how "young it is". He just looks like a fool. Am I being judgmental? Yes. Am I comfortable with my judgment. Yes.


For the most part, I agree with your first point. My wife and I read his updates a couple weeks ago, and the same points struck me. If you willfully choose to ignore the law, it will not end well. That being said, I can't say for certain for how long and/or how many times he has been warned.

As for your second point, I can only say that I've never met him, so I don't think I should pass judgment on him as a person. I can say that the few times I've emailed him, he has responded with kindness and never came across rude or prideful.
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Re: David Lee Hoffman fined $200k

Postby zzenster » Jul 13th, '12, 12:16

I have sympathy for David Lee Hoffman, and I feel that he should be able to do as he pleases with his house, provided that there is some sort of legal mechanism that holds him liable for any, erm, compost that ends up downstream or downwind. I do not have sympathy for George Lucas, especially after episodes 1, 2, 3, blu-ray edits, and 3D releases.


Please.... George Lucas does not need our sympathy. He probably has enough money to buy Marin County if he wants to.
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Re: David Lee Hoffman fined $200k

Postby tst » Jul 13th, '12, 12:21

debunix wrote:I was very excited to see "All this in tea", but I stopped watching after 15 or so minutes because the tone was so unpleasant. It suggested a degree of ego necessary to keep building in the face of the repeated red-tagging. I have no idea about the quality of his teas, or his constructions. But to keep it up in the face of repeated run-ins with the local laws--and without any mention that I saw of, say, campaigning to prove the validity of his methods & change the laws, well, that was not wise.


I'm fairly new to tea and the tea community, however I've noticed quite a bit of "ego" in the world of tea. It isn't all that uncommon to read people put others (or others' opinions) down ... even on these forums. I'm not going to say whether Hoffman is egotistical or not, but I will say that there seems to be quite a bit of ego that permeates the tea community, so why not call everyone out on it?

I'll be the first to say that I know very little, but there seems to be many who value their own opinions very highly, and if Hoffman is one of those, then he isn't alone in that regard. Just my humble opinion ...
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