What gives matcha creamy taste? Creamy cultivar?


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What gives matcha creamy taste? Creamy cultivar?

Postby linping » Jul 19th, '12, 13:34

First of all i would like to know what give matcha a creamy taste and mouthfeel? Do you know any chemical composition that resposible to this?

Second what is the most creamy matcha that you ever tried? Do you think the cultivar of tea effect this creamy quality apart from grades. From my personally experince one of the creamiest match that I tried come from Yama no Ibuki cultivar? so I would like to know is there any specific cultivar that give creamy tast?

Thank you verymuch

P.S sorry for my broken english as i'm not a native of it.
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Re: What gives matcha creamy taste? Creamy cultivar?

Postby Xell » Jul 20th, '12, 00:44

I think creamy body is because matcha is really fine tea powder. Also from what i know saponins in tea are responsible for foam keeping its shape, so with good whisking technique it becomes creamy. Probably biggest reason why higher grade can have more creamy body is simply more higher tea to water ratio.

Though maybe cultivar or where it's grown also slightly affect creaminess. Don't know exact reason, but it was bit more difficult to get same foam with usucha grade matcha from Uji than Yame.
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Re: What gives matcha creamy taste? Creamy cultivar?

Postby linping » Jul 20th, '12, 05:05

Thank you very much for the answer. Xell :D
What is the creamiest matcha you have taste so far
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Re: What gives matcha creamy taste? Creamy cultivar?

Postby Xell » Jul 20th, '12, 07:22

linping wrote:Thank you very much for the answer. Xell :D
What is the creamiest matcha you have taste so far


I don't have much to compare, since i'm drinking mostly Yame matcha. When i have good koicha matcha open i still prepare usucha, but with almost double the amount. This way it's even more creamy. So if this is what you want, get koicha grade. And working on your whisking technique should also help.

Here is how foam on my usual usucha looks like, actually it's more green, wrong light placement :) (click on image for full size)
Image
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Re: What gives matcha creamy taste? Creamy cultivar?

Postby iovetea » Jul 21st, '12, 06:14

Xell wrote:
linping wrote:Thank you very much for the answer. Xell :D
What is the creamiest matcha you have taste so far


I don't have much to compare, since i'm drinking mostly Yame matcha. When i have good koicha matcha open i still prepare usucha, but with almost double the amount. This way it's even more creamy. So if this is what you want, get koicha grade. And working on your whisking technique should also help.

Here is how foam on my usual usucha looks like, actually it's more green, wrong light placement :) (click on image for full size)
Image


how much matcha do you drink a day and do you also drink other teas??? if so how is it caffeine wise, any problems??
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Re: What gives matcha creamy taste? Creamy cultivar?

Postby Xell » Jul 21st, '12, 06:56

iovetea wrote:how much matcha do you drink a day and do you also drink other teas??? if so how is it caffeine wise, any problems??


Depends on free time, but usually it is 1-2 bowls of matcha in the morning and sometimes one more in evening. Depends how i want it right now, i use 2-3 chasaku of usucha matcha for 100ml. I think on average i drink about 1-1,5L of other tea per day, such as sencha, kabusecha, kukicha etc. Don't really have any problems with caffeine. There is quite little amount of caffeine actually in all this tea. But i'm not good with decent coffee, first spike of energy, then quickly become lazy and sleepy.
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Re: What gives matcha creamy taste? Creamy cultivar?

Postby linping » Jul 21st, '12, 11:51

Thank you very much again for answer
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Re: What gives matcha creamy taste? Creamy cultivar?

Postby iovetea » Jul 21st, '12, 14:32

Xell wrote:
iovetea wrote:how much matcha do you drink a day and do you also drink other teas??? if so how is it caffeine wise, any problems??


Depends on free time, but usually it is 1-2 bowls of matcha in the morning and sometimes one more in evening. Depends how i want it right now, i use 2-3 chasaku of usucha matcha for 100ml. I think on average i drink about 1-1,5L of other tea per day, such as sencha, kabusecha, kukicha etc. Don't really have any problems with caffeine. There is quite little amount of caffeine actually in all this tea. But i'm not good with decent coffee, first spike of energy, then quickly become lazy and sleepy.


thank you very much
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Re: What gives matcha creamy taste? Creamy cultivar?

Postby robbie_olive » Jul 23rd, '12, 07:23

I agree with Xell; a higher ratio of matcha to water, with a high quality matcha, will always give a creamier texture.
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Re: What gives matcha creamy taste? Creamy cultivar?

Postby FlyedPiper » Jul 23rd, '12, 13:33

I'm wondering if the "creamyness" the OP is talking about is the umami? In that case it's an amino acid called theanine in the tea that is the result of it being grown under shade before harvest.

Just wondering because I always describe real green tea to someone that's only had cheap bagged green tea as "creamy".
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Re: What gives matcha creamy taste? Creamy cultivar?

Postby linping » Jul 24th, '12, 11:28

FlyedPiper wrote:I'm wondering if the "creamyness" the OP is talking about is the umami? In that case it's an amino acid called theanine in the tea that is the result of it being grown under shade before harvest.

Just wondering because I always describe real green tea to someone that's only had cheap bagged green tea as "creamy".


To Flypiper

First of all i think the in my way of thinking , I coined the term "Umami" as delicous taste , not the creamyness of the tea ( so it is a complex and unique taste that give by nature of a tea) In strict sense I think in modern time we refer Umami as the taste that resemble to free glutamate which have a somewhat brothy taste. In this case L-theanine which is glutamic acid analog so it will give out brothy taste. In case you want to know what Umami taste like in modern science term try taste Pure-L theanine powder or MSG and you will know what it taste like. For my the tea that have is ounstading in this taste is high ration leaf to water brew of gyokuro.


Second for the "creaminess" of matcha , personally it really hard to describe it not about the creamy texure of matcha but the creamy or milky mouthfell that linger in the mouth like there is some cream or oil cover the tougue. I usually find this in only koicha from high grade matcha. So for me this creaminess only exist when I drink high grade matcha whether i whisk it or not. Or when i chew the leaf.


Sorry from my broken english, and hope this will help
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Re: What gives matcha creamy taste? Creamy cultivar?

Postby Xell » Jul 24th, '12, 12:05

linping wrote:Second for the "creaminess" of matcha , personally it really hard to describe it not about the creamy texure of matcha but the creamy or milky mouthfell that linger in the mouth like there is some cream or oil cover the tougue. I usually find this in only koicha from high grade matcha. So for me this creaminess only exist when I drink high grade matcha whether i whisk it or not. Or when i chew the leaf.



Probably little bit different from what i thought, but still main reason i think is same. I.e. from matcha being really fine and light tea powder. When mixed with water, tea particles don't settle on bottom for quite some time. Though wonder if saponins do a thing for this creamy texture in koicha, in usucha at least i guess they help to trap tiny bubbles inside liquor, which gives usucha this light and creamy texture. So yes, need really good koicha grade then.

Personally i really like usucha for it's light and creamy body with good foam. No other tea can give me this feeling in mouth, it's like drinking clouds :)
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Re: What gives matcha creamy taste? Creamy cultivar?

Postby linping » Jul 24th, '12, 12:14

Thank you very much for being really active in this post.
Strongly agree with Xell about smooth and fluffy usucha. Have you ever tired spend lot of time whisking until it become super smooth ?
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Re: What gives matcha creamy taste? Creamy cultivar?

Postby Xell » Jul 24th, '12, 13:01

linping wrote:Thank you very much for being really active in this post.
Strongly agree with Xell about smooth and fluffy usucha. Have you ever tired spend lot of time whisking until it become super smooth ?


Simply i really like to drink matcha myself. Though usucha only, koicha is a bit too concentrated flavor for me.

Yes, i tried and it works really well. Usually i try to achieve at least 4-5mm thick layer of foam without any big bubbles, then i know, that it will be really fluffy, probably best word to describe this texture - "fluffy", better than 'creamy'.
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Re: What gives matcha creamy taste? Creamy cultivar?

Postby FlyedPiper » Jul 24th, '12, 13:57

"Second for the "creaminess" of matcha , personally it really hard to describe it not about the creamy texure of matcha but the creamy or milky mouthfell that linger in the mouth like there is some cream or oil cover the tougue. I usually find this in only koicha from high grade matcha. So for me this creaminess only exist when I drink high grade matcha whether i whisk it or not. Or when i chew the leaf."

That is a great description of umami! :lol:

I think what you're describing is a combination of concentrated levels of L-Theanine in high grade matcha and smooth mouthfeel texturally from the matcha being very high quality (very fresh and finely ground)
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