I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification


One of the intentionally aged teas, Pu-Erh has a loyal following.

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

Postby needaTEAcher » Jul 26th, '12, 19:15

apache wrote:I think I should take more care of what I said. I didn't try all their products, only a subset. I would take each individual cake or tea as its own merit, be it is handcraft single mountain wild old tree, or from a big factory made of plantation leaves or from any vendors. Not becuase any tea trader is a crook and trying to cron my money, but because puerh tea is a complex and interesting subject, no one can knew everything about it and mistake is very easy to make when you source your stocks.


That makes a lot of sense. Thanks!

iovetea wrote:i wouldn't call it naive, if you want drink tea and know no trustworthy people you just have to take such gambles and risk money to one day get great tea.

well i once even bought fake gyokuro in a real store i. so there is no real safe place and you always just have to take gambles i think.


The romantic in me believes deeply that there are good sources and good vendors. It just takes work to find them! I have been to few stores where I trust the entire stock, but I have found them!
User avatar
needaTEAcher
 
Posts: 505
Joined: Oct 6th, '1
Location: Hong Kong, next China

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

Postby apache » Jul 27th, '12, 04:53

MarshalN wrote:
That depends on the cake. If it's already somewhat aged, and then blasted dry, that can hurt the tea. If it's been really dry all along and thus didn't age much, then indeed a better storage environment will help.


This is a very interesting point. Are you saying for a "semi-aged" cake, bone dry storage would cause more harm than a brand new cake?
User avatar
apache
 
Posts: 582
Joined: Apr 11th, '
Location: UK

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

Postby apache » Jul 27th, '12, 05:10

iovetea wrote:
needaTEAcher wrote:I would have thought that Art of Tea would link a more trustworthy source then. Alas, my naivety is creeping back in. I m always shocked when tea people aren't 100% dedicated to bringing wonderful products to the masses. :(

Wasn't gonna buy it anyways. C'est la vie!



i wouldn't call it naive, if you want drink tea and know no trustworthy people you just have to take such gambles and risk money to one day get great tea.

well i once even bought fake gyokuro in a real store i. so there is no real safe place and you always just have to take gambles i think.


There are ways to mitigate some of the risk. certainly some vendors are more trust worthy than others, some are specialised in some factories but not other factories etc. Obviously the best way is to sample it before buying, but for most of us this is next to impossible. General rule is: to buy sample instead of cakes, buy one cake instead of tongs, buy a tong instead of a box, but of cause there is exception to this rule. And don't make impulsive decision. I think if the offer is too good to be true, (old cliche), very likely it is. This is very often the case with famous and well known cakes.
User avatar
apache
 
Posts: 582
Joined: Apr 11th, '
Location: UK

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

Postby MarshalN » Jul 27th, '12, 05:45

apache wrote:
MarshalN wrote:
That depends on the cake. If it's already somewhat aged, and then blasted dry, that can hurt the tea. If it's been really dry all along and thus didn't age much, then indeed a better storage environment will help.


This is a very interesting point. Are you saying for a "semi-aged" cake, bone dry storage would cause more harm than a brand new cake?


That's the conclusion I've drawn from my personal experience.
User avatar
MarshalN
 
Posts: 2099
Joined: Mar 15th, '

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

Postby iovetea » Jul 27th, '12, 06:07

apache wrote:
iovetea wrote:
needaTEAcher wrote:I would have thought that Art of Tea would link a more trustworthy source then. Alas, my naivety is creeping back in. I m always shocked when tea people aren't 100% dedicated to bringing wonderful products to the masses. :(

Wasn't gonna buy it anyways. C'est la vie!



i wouldn't call it naive, if you want drink tea and know no trustworthy people you just have to take such gambles and risk money to one day get great tea.

well i once even bought fake gyokuro in a real store i. so there is no real safe place and you always just have to take gambles i think.


There are ways to mitigate some of the risk. certainly some vendors are more trust worthy than others, some are specialised in some factories but not other factories etc. Obviously the best way is to sample it before buying, but for most of us this is next to impossible. General rule is: to buy sample instead of cakes, buy one cake instead of tongs, buy a tong instead of a box, but of cause there is exception to this rule. And don't make impulsive decision. I think if the offer is too good to be true, (old cliche), very likely it is. This is very often the case with famous and well known cakes.


yes that is a very good tip. the problem is how do you know if its to good to be true and when is the market just cornered?? you remember the hunt brothers cornering the entire silver future market of the usa??? no one could stop them just with breaking the rules they ruined them.
pu erh is a much smaller market, its less liquid and you need less money...
especially online vendors, maybe were you live you can go to real life vendors??
maybe 90 % of online shops are all created by one single person with friends all over the world? i mean you just need to give someone 50 dollar a month and they would ship em for you.


but thats probably just my paranoia, how do you know what the fair price for a pu erh is and what is to good to be true?
iovetea
 
Posts: 172
Joined: Jul 9th, '1

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

Postby yanom » Jul 27th, '12, 06:22

There's no such thing as a fair price, at least not for non-essentials.
There's just the price that the buyer and seller agree on.
yanom
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Oct 5th, '1

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

Postby apache » Jul 27th, '12, 06:42

Puerh market in the west is very small indeed, but in China, this is well over 1.7 mil. box per year now (30 kg per box). They trade tea in boxes like stocks. It would be very difficult to corner any Dayi new productions, older or rarer top quality cakes are another matter.

There're sites give you current whole sale price. eg.
http://www.donghetea.com/

For older stuff, e.g. 88-qing, red, blue marks, there are auction site you can ckeck the price. Old maxim stated that no one would run a lost making business. Tea vendor normally would not sell a cake below its trade in price.

IMO, I don't think western pu traders operate like a cartel. If they do, we can always source our stuff on TB or buy directly from the far east.

Here I'm talking about average market price, and I don't think I can define fair price, not even trying to.
User avatar
apache
 
Posts: 582
Joined: Apr 11th, '
Location: UK

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

Postby iovetea » Jul 27th, '12, 07:17

apache wrote:Puerh market in the west is very small indeed, but in China, this is well over 1.7 mil. box per year now (30 kg per box). They trade tea in boxes like stocks. It would be very difficult to corner any Dayi new productions, older or rarer top quality cakes are another matter.

There're sites give you current whole sale price. eg.
http://www.donghetea.com/

For older stuff, e.g. 88-qing, red, blue marks, there are auction site you can ckeck the price. Old maxim stated that no one would run a lost making business. Tea vendor normally would not sell a cake below its trade in price.

IMO, I don't think western pu traders operate like a cartel. If they do, we can always source our stuff on TB or buy directly from the far east.

Here I'm talking about average market price, and I don't think I can define fair price, not even trying to.


yes i have more trust in the chinese pu erh market because they have many knowledgable buyers, even so they have black sheep as well.

ps im not sure but i think i read in a tea magazine that in 2008 someone bought the entire menghai production and the price dropped that year because he had to sell or something like that.
iovetea
 
Posts: 172
Joined: Jul 9th, '1

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

Postby apache » Jul 27th, '12, 07:33

What? An entire yearly productions of Dayi? I think it's more likely a few selected types of cakes of that year. I may be wrong, but I think situation a little bit different now. The reason I say this is recently Cloud had an article about 2011 Golden Dayi. Normally anything as soon as Cloud says is good, price shoot up by at least 20%, but this time no such thing happen. I heard rumour this dues to distribution of product already to large number of traders. Price does go up a bit, but not as much as 20%, and 2011 Golden Dayi is still available in many places and selling quite well.
User avatar
apache
 
Posts: 582
Joined: Apr 11th, '
Location: UK

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

Postby iovetea » Jul 27th, '12, 07:44

apache wrote:What? An entire yearly productions of Dayi? I think it's more likely a few selected types of cakes of that year. I may be wrong, but I think situation a little bit different now. The reason I say this is recently Cloud had an article about 2011 Golden Dayi. Normally anything as soon as Cloud says is good, price shoot up by at least 20%, but this time no such thing happen. I heard rumour this dues to distribution of product already to large number of traders. Price does go up a bit, but not as much as 20%, and 2011 Golden Dayi is still available in many places and selling quite well.


well i thought i read it in the magazine cloud writes for and if you do not know it, than I'm surely mistaken. Anyway i really miss that magazine, clouds articles were pretty nice too. Its really a shame i can't buy it were i live.
iovetea
 
Posts: 172
Joined: Jul 9th, '1

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

Postby MarshalN » Jul 27th, '12, 09:11

iovetea wrote:
yes i have more trust in the chinese pu erh market because they have many knowledgable buyers, even so they have black sheep as well.

ps im not sure but i think i read in a tea magazine that in 2008 someone bought the entire menghai production and the price dropped that year because he had to sell or something like that.


Not possible - prices dropped in 2007 anyway, and nobody has the ability to buy up the entire production of everything from MH, as apache noted.
User avatar
MarshalN
 
Posts: 2099
Joined: Mar 15th, '

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

Postby needaTEAcher » Jul 27th, '12, 11:28

apache wrote:There're sites give you current whole sale price. eg.
http://www.donghetea.com/
...Old maxim stated that no one would run a lost making business. Tea vendor normally would not sell a cake below its trade in price.


Thanks for the link. That is great. As per the second part, there are definitely vendors selling at less than market price, just few and far between. I have mentioned more than once my "guys" in Korea, who sell for 50-80% of the market price, as I have determined through online shopping, asking around in Malaysia (asking both after the Chinese price and the Malaysian price--for higher-end stuff the Malaysian price is often a little higher), and checking out other stores/asking around for Chinese prices in Korea. And, since there is always an exception (which makes the rule!), their tea is exceptionally well stored. Same years of same teas always taste better than anywhere else I can find it. There is a long and silly story as to why the company is the way it is, but it basically breaks just above even, after putting aside profit for future investment, and is happy with that, so long as all the employees make decent money. They are my heros. True embodiments of the Way of Tea!
User avatar
needaTEAcher
 
Posts: 505
Joined: Oct 6th, '1
Location: Hong Kong, next China

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

Postby MarshalN » Jul 27th, '12, 12:36

needaTEAcher wrote:
Thanks for the link. That is great. As per the second part, there are definitely vendors selling at less than market price, just few and far between. I have mentioned more than once my "guys" in Korea, who sell for 50-80% of the market price,


Korean market prices, or Chinese market prices? The latter is not really possible - Korean customs duties alone is 20% extra.
User avatar
MarshalN
 
Posts: 2099
Joined: Mar 15th, '

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

Postby apache » Jul 27th, '12, 12:39

MarshalN wrote:
needaTEAcher wrote:
Thanks for the link. That is great. As per the second part, there are definitely vendors selling at less than market price, just few and far between. I have mentioned more than once my "guys" in Korea, who sell for 50-80% of the market price,


Korean market prices, or Chinese market prices? The latter is not really possible - Korean customs duties alone is 20% extra.


Interesting, I didn't know there's import tax for tea in Korea. 20% that's a bit sharp!!!!
User avatar
apache
 
Posts: 582
Joined: Apr 11th, '
Location: UK

Re: I need fast help on a 1999 Menghai 7542 Identification

Postby apache » Jul 27th, '12, 12:48

needaTEAcher wrote:
apache wrote:There're sites give you current whole sale price. eg.
http://www.donghetea.com/
...Old maxim stated that no one would run a lost making business. Tea vendor normally would not sell a cake below its trade in price.


Thanks for the link. That is great. As per the second part, there are definitely vendors selling at less than market price, just few and far between. I have mentioned more than once my "guys" in Korea, who sell for 50-80% of the market price, as I have determined through online shopping, asking around in Malaysia (asking both after the Chinese price and the Malaysian price--for higher-end stuff the Malaysian price is often a little higher), and checking out other stores/asking around for Chinese prices in Korea. And, since there is always an exception (which makes the rule!), their tea is exceptionally well stored. Same years of same teas always taste better than anywhere else I can find it. There is a long and silly story as to why the company is the way it is, but it basically breaks just above even, after putting aside profit for future investment, and is happy with that, so long as all the employees make decent money. They are my heros. True embodiments of the Way of Tea!


I think it's only possible when they bought the tea new and aged it some years before selling it. I think the price increases by c. 30% yearly if the tea is good and well sort after, but before we are getting too excited, it's only a handful of cakes in today market would give this kind of increases. Most Dayi stuffs after 2005 only increase slightly in price.

Sound like you find a very good tea vendor.
User avatar
apache
 
Posts: 582
Joined: Apr 11th, '
Location: UK

PreviousNext

Instant Messenger

Permissions
You cannot post new topics
You cannot reply to topics
You cannot edit your posts
You cannot delete your posts
You cannot post attachments
Navigation