Cake different from testing in shop - what went wrong?


One of the intentionally aged teas, Pu-Erh has a loyal following.

Re: Cake different from testing in shop - what went wrong?

Postby wyardley » Sep 29th, '12, 00:24

Folks who work in a tea shop generally brew better than the average bear too... for obvious reasons.
User avatar
wyardley
 
Posts: 1943
Joined: Jan 11th, '
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Cake different from testing in shop - what went wrong?

Postby theredbaron » Sep 29th, '12, 01:39

jayinhk wrote:I think Volvic actually has a pretty high mineral content:

http://www.mineralwaters.org/index.php? ... arval=2761

http://www.mineralwaters.org/index.php? ... arval=2761

This is a great site for the mineral water aficionados. I just drink Brita-filtered tap water or boiled tap water (like most of HK) down here at work since I haven't brought the spare Brita down here yet. Incidentally, HK being granite and basalt (volcanic rock), our local water should have a somewhat similar mineral content, although of course our water is treat and diluted with treated river water from China.

Of course, not everything in the water is listed on the label, particularly in China, so if it tastes funny, run. :D

Distilled water would have the lowest number of solutes. I may have to try some later today to see if it makes a difference.

Mineral water is a great business: even in the US, lots of 'spring water' just comes from municipal water supplies.



Sorry to disagree, but 109 totally dissolved solids is still a relatively low mineral contend water. Compare with Evian, for example, which has 347 totally dissolved solids, and is not a very suitable water for tea.
There are quite possibly better bottled waters than Volvic, but they are not available here in the markets in our part of the world. At least i haven't seen them.
Pre-boiled tap water is totally unsuitable for tea (water needs to be "alive"), and i would also say the same about Brita filters, even though it does improve the taste of water somewhat.
Tap water can be good for tea depending on where you live. But not all tap water that is very good for drinking can be good for tea.

You will have to do a side by side comparison with available waters, same tea, same brewing method. Volvic is generally accepted as a quite OK water, much better than most brands that are available.
theredbaron
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Aug 1st, '1
Location: Bangkok

Re: Cake different from testing in shop - what went wrong?

Postby ChengduCha » Sep 29th, '12, 03:32

MarshalN wrote:Something else - if it's a cake that they've had out for a while as a sample, the airing out might have done something to the cake, although usually not drastic.


Their sample was loose in a Dayi envelope as far as I remember.

wyardley wrote:Folks who work in a tea shop generally brew better than the average bear too... for obvious reasons.


Actually the girl in the Dayi shop was really awful at gongfu brewing, which doesn't surprise me since it's the most commercial pu erh brand in China. :D

I tried it today with the purified water but the tea was very meh again.

I guess I'll just chalk it up as a bad cake and store it for a year or two or give it to a friend.
ChengduCha
 
Posts: 135
Joined: Jun 2nd, '1

Re: Cake different from testing in shop - what went wrong?

Postby MarshalN » Sep 29th, '12, 04:23

ChengduCha wrote:
MarshalN wrote:Something else - if it's a cake that they've had out for a while as a sample, the airing out might have done something to the cake, although usually not drastic.


Their sample was loose in a Dayi envelope as far as I remember.

wyardley wrote:Folks who work in a tea shop generally brew better than the average bear too... for obvious reasons.


Actually the girl in the Dayi shop was really awful at gongfu brewing, which doesn't surprise me since it's the most commercial pu erh brand in China. :D

I tried it today with the purified water but the tea was very meh again.

I guess I'll just chalk it up as a bad cake and store it for a year or two or give it to a friend.


Purified water!? That's no good at all
User avatar
MarshalN
 
Posts: 2105
Joined: Mar 15th, '

Re: Cake different from testing in shop - what went wrong?

Postby theredbaron » Sep 29th, '12, 04:25

ChengduCha wrote:
MarshalN wrote:Something else - if it's a cake that they've had out for a while as a sample, the airing out might have done something to the cake, although usually not drastic.


Their sample was loose in a Dayi envelope as far as I remember.

wyardley wrote:Folks who work in a tea shop generally brew better than the average bear too... for obvious reasons.


Actually the girl in the Dayi shop was really awful at gongfu brewing, which doesn't surprise me since it's the most commercial pu erh brand in China. :D

I tried it today with the purified water but the tea was very meh again.

I guess I'll just chalk it up as a bad cake and store it for a year or two or give it to a friend.


Don't be too quick, try it first later again. Sometimes Pu Erh can go into some sort of hibernation stages, tastewise. Also, a few weeks of airing a cake after breaking it up does significantly improve the taste.
theredbaron
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Aug 1st, '1
Location: Bangkok

Re: Cake different from testing in shop - what went wrong?

Postby chrl42 » Sep 29th, '12, 10:57

Puerh is brewed in boiling water, once the water is boiled many minerals will be evaporated..pretty much on par with purified or distilled water.

The Chinese has a long history discussing water, during Tang dynasty they considered mineral water from high up mountain the best,

Qing dynasty is the opposite, for example Qian Long tested all the water from famous wells to pick the lightest water in China, some considered snow water, the lightest, the best.


But I do know Wuyi Yancha prefers the mineral water, and it's written in many Gongfu scripts...whatever the base water and its mineral contents, I've heard once it's boiled they will be gone.
User avatar
chrl42
 
Posts: 1652
Joined: Mar 22nd, '
Location: Beijing

Re: Cake different from testing in shop - what went wrong?

Postby MarshalN » Sep 29th, '12, 11:29

chrl42 wrote:Puerh is brewed in boiling water, once the water is boiled many minerals will be evaporated..pretty much on par with purified or distilled water.

The Chinese has a long history discussing water, during Tang dynasty they considered mineral water from high up mountain the best,

Qing dynasty is the opposite, for example Qian Long tested all the water from famous wells to pick the lightest water in China, some considered snow water, the lightest, the best.


But I do know Wuyi Yancha prefers the mineral water, and it's written in many Gongfu scripts...whatever the base water and its mineral contents, I've heard once it's boiled they will be gone.


Um, minerals don't go anywhere, in fact, the more you boil it the more concentrated the minerals get as the water evaporates. That's how you get deposits.
User avatar
MarshalN
 
Posts: 2105
Joined: Mar 15th, '

Re: Cake different from testing in shop - what went wrong?

Postby AdamMY » Sep 29th, '12, 11:34

I'm not a chemist, but it could be that people are using minerals to cover different things. Such as the Chlorine, and I think any Flouride in the water would evaporate away as the water is heated. But things like calcium and other similar minerals would become more concentrated.
User avatar
AdamMY
 
Posts: 2363
Joined: Jul 22nd, '
Location: Capital of the Mitten

Re: Cake different from testing in shop - what went wrong?

Postby MarshalN » Sep 29th, '12, 11:43

Hmm, I guess, although I don't think you really want chlorine in your water.
User avatar
MarshalN
 
Posts: 2105
Joined: Mar 15th, '

Re: Cake different from testing in shop - what went wrong?

Postby Catfur » Sep 29th, '12, 12:45

MarshalN wrote:
chrl42 wrote:Puerh is brewed in boiling water, once the water is boiled many minerals will be evaporated..pretty much on par with purified or distilled water.

The Chinese has a long history discussing water, during Tang dynasty they considered mineral water from high up mountain the best,

Qing dynasty is the opposite, for example Qian Long tested all the water from famous wells to pick the lightest water in China, some considered snow water, the lightest, the best.


But I do know Wuyi Yancha prefers the mineral water, and it's written in many Gongfu scripts...whatever the base water and its mineral contents, I've heard once it's boiled they will be gone.


Um, minerals don't go anywhere, in fact, the more you boil it the more concentrated the minerals get as the water evaporates. That's how you get deposits.


Curiously, depending on the type of mineral dissolved, boiling will reduce the mineral content of the water. The alkaline earth metals (calcium, magnesium...) are not highly soluble in water as carbonates, however their bicarbonates are much more soluble in water. The bicarbonate ion exists in a chemical equilibrium with dissolved carbon dioxide in water. As water is boiled the carbon dioxide is driven off, and the bicarbonate ions remaining convert to carbonate ions and carbon dioxide, and are driven off as well. The remaining carbonate minerals will rapidly precipitate out of solution, until the solution reaches the saturation point for that carbonate (at a lower level than before). So if your water is super-saturated with bicarbonate minerals of calcium and magnesium, boiling it will, in fact, reduce the mineral content. This, not the loss of water due to boiling off, is the reason you get mineral scale buildup in the container you boil water in.
User avatar
Catfur
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Jun 19th, '
Location: Carlsbad, NM

Re: Cake different from testing in shop - what went wrong?

Postby shah82 » Sep 29th, '12, 14:09

Catfur, I was gunna say something to that effect but you said it better.
shah82
 
Posts: 1167
Joined: May 9th, '0

Re: Cake different from testing in shop - what went wrong?

Postby gingkoseto » Sep 29th, '12, 14:12

Since it's a 2011 shu, probably resting time is important.

I think good water and bad water make a big difference, but different bottled water may not make a big difference. However, some nongfu water I had did taste sour to me, although their commercial always says it taste sweet :?:
User avatar
gingkoseto
Vendor Member
 
Posts: 2141
Joined: Sep 24th, '
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Cake different from testing in shop - what went wrong?

Postby theredbaron » Sep 29th, '12, 14:25

gingkoseto wrote:Since it's a 2011 shu, probably resting time is important.

I think good water and bad water make a big difference, but different bottled water may not make a big difference. However, some nongfu water I had did taste sour to me, although their commercial always says it taste sweet :?:



Different brands of bottled water make a huge difference, just try them side by side. There are brands that give you right away a ton of scale and at the same time transform your high quality tea into a cheap supermarket brew. Other brands, like the already mentioned Volvic or Fiji will give no scale and the teas will be clean and shiny.
theredbaron
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Aug 1st, '1
Location: Bangkok

Re: Cake different from testing in shop - what went wrong?

Postby gingkoseto » Sep 29th, '12, 15:30

theredbaron wrote:
gingkoseto wrote:Since it's a 2011 shu, probably resting time is important.

I think good water and bad water make a big difference, but different bottled water may not make a big difference. However, some nongfu water I had did taste sour to me, although their commercial always says it taste sweet :?:



Different brands of bottled water make a huge difference, just try them side by side. There are brands that give you right away a ton of scale and at the same time transform your high quality tea into a cheap supermarket brew. Other brands, like the already mentioned Volvic or Fiji will give no scale and the teas will be clean and shiny.


I generally don't use any bottled water. But I'm lucky to be close to good water source so far wherever I've been (except during my short trips to New Mexico and the real Mexico...)
But I'm surprise to hear some bottled water could be so terrible. Shouldn't some agency shut the factory down? It's terrible that plain water costs that much money, and more terrible when it's bad.

On the other hand, scale is not necessarily a bad thing (bad to the kettle, though). Scaling means what we don't want is solidified and won't be drunk up. A lot of good mountain spring water would produce scale but the water is good. Usually what's worst is the bad mineral that we don't want and don't precipitate into scale either.
User avatar
gingkoseto
Vendor Member
 
Posts: 2141
Joined: Sep 24th, '
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Cake different from testing in shop - what went wrong?

Postby theredbaron » Sep 29th, '12, 15:47

gingkoseto wrote:
theredbaron wrote:
gingkoseto wrote:Since it's a 2011 shu, probably resting time is important.

I think good water and bad water make a big difference, but different bottled water may not make a big difference. However, some nongfu water I had did taste sour to me, although their commercial always says it taste sweet :?:



Different brands of bottled water make a huge difference, just try them side by side. There are brands that give you right away a ton of scale and at the same time transform your high quality tea into a cheap supermarket brew. Other brands, like the already mentioned Volvic or Fiji will give no scale and the teas will be clean and shiny.


I generally don't use any bottled water. But I'm lucky to be close to good water source so far wherever I've been (except during my short trips to New Mexico and the real Mexico...)
But I'm surprise to hear some bottled water could be so terrible. Shouldn't some agency shut the factory down? It's terrible that plain water costs that much money, and more terrible when it's bad.

On the other hand, scale is not necessarily a bad thing (bad to the kettle, though). Scaling means what we don't want is solidified and won't be drunk up. A lot of good mountain spring water would produce scale but the water is good. Usually what's worst is the bad mineral that we don't want and don't precipitate into scale either.



Hard water does not make it a bad water at all. It just is not suitable for tea. Some of the most healthy mountain water in the European Alps, for example, is perfect for drinking, very tasty and refreshing, but completely unsuitable for tea.
Scaling is not just the scale that sticks to your kettle, but is is also the white stuff you see floating around the water. This is not what you want.

When you live where i live - in Bangkok - you simply will not find any natural water that you can possibly think of drinking. In most of Asia's urban areas you will not get any water that is suitable for drinking. Most people get drinking water delivered in large gallons, buy it in bottles, or use public filters that are standing at many street corners in the neighborhoods.
Tap water is not natural as well anywhere (other than in countries you really don't want to drink it), there are many additives that are not good for tea. Very few people have the luck to live in places where there are clean springs close by from which you can draw your water, and which have soft enough water for tea.
theredbaron
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Aug 1st, '1
Location: Bangkok

PreviousNext

Instant Messenger

Permissions
You cannot post new topics
You cannot reply to topics
You cannot edit your posts
You cannot delete your posts
You cannot post attachments
Navigation