Resolved: Western Banna Leaves ages better than the East


One of the intentionally aged teas, Pu-Erh has a loyal following.

Re: Resolved: Western Banna Leaves ages better than the East

Postby TwoDog2 » Oct 16th, '12, 23:22

I agree with Simao, there is a lot of Simao tea that I could enjoy.

MarshalN wrote: So why are you only focusing on Yiwu as the source of this problem? It's endemic. I know people who use whatever cake they have and just wrap "Bingdao" "Laobanzhang" or whatever on them, because that's what sells. What's inside might be some crap low altitude plantation tea, it doesn't matter. I thought we're talking about the genuine article, and not what people call them.


You are right. I was just picking on Yiwu to try and narrow it down. But, this is a separate topic. (and an interesting one)

The topic is depressing. I wish there were less fakes and more market control. It would make searching out good tea easier, as well as the discussion of it. If you go on Taobao and buy 1 cake of "Laobanzhang" from the first 30 vendors that come up, my guess would be you get zero Laobanzhang cakes. On a good day, you might get 2.
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Re: Resolved: Western Banna Leaves ages better than the East

Postby shah82 » Oct 16th, '12, 23:29

Me, I alway filter it with 2000 RMB. That removes the number of obvious fakes.
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Re: Resolved: Western Banna Leaves ages better than the East

Postby MarshalN » Oct 17th, '12, 01:04

shah82 wrote:Me, I alway filter it with 2000 RMB. That removes the number of obvious fakes.


A reminder that I can sell you a fake LBZ for $300 USD might be necessary!
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Re: Resolved: Western Banna Leaves ages better than the East

Postby shah82 » Oct 17th, '12, 01:30

And I can check the rating of just how good seller you are. Lots of them, and hey, I bet I'm getting at least a good fake.
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Re: Resolved: Western Banna Leaves ages better than the East

Postby MarshalN » Oct 17th, '12, 01:48

Alas, I wish it were so easy. Problem with high priced teas on taobao, anyway, is that there's never any rating because there's no market.
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Re: Resolved: Western Banna Leaves ages better than the East

Postby shah82 » Oct 17th, '12, 01:59

My Dad is Li Gang!
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Re: Resolved: Western Banna Leaves ages better than the East

Postby chrl42 » Oct 17th, '12, 02:39

Very well-respected gentlemen on forum, I'm learning a lot from you guys :)

However, shah's emphasis on a different region makes different aging seems to imply a very crucial meaning. Because it's not long since we started drinking gu-shu and seperated within areas. I detect next decade will be full of thories like this among Puerh aficionados :)

I have a Puerh seller living next to me, fortunately. Koreans are late-comers when it comes to Laocha unless you got $$, but he's excited how many local farmers he got to know and how his supervised gu-shus will end up in higher price years later.

I often visit him tasting samples and new arrivals, my expression was like..(maybe I could be wrong)..all those adolescent gu-shus (that sees some fermentation) aren't as powerful as well-blended tai-dis..'specially what he mentions as Yiwu..they are fine in 5-years while tai-dis still possess the Ku-se wei...now I worry, what if his gushus won't turn out years later as he expects them to be?

My most recent comparison was 02 Yichanghao and 99 Xiaguan Tiebing, I should say the difference was huge although price was about the same..Yichanghao was a stale beer while Xiaguan Tiebing to me was a perfect balance of qi with adequate storage. So when I saw shah82 and TwoDog's statements it certainly rang my bell, even though my overall experience is not enough to that both of Marshal and shah.
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Re: Resolved: Western Banna Leaves ages better than the East

Postby shah82 » Oct 17th, '12, 02:46

There are plenty of good taidicha. They're just used for faking gushu, these days. Back before 2003, they went into teas like the famous Xiaguans.

Changtai sucks, man. Way too mild, most of the time.
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Re: Resolved: Western Banna Leaves ages better than the East

Postby JakubT » Oct 17th, '12, 03:02

shah8: (Changtai) Still better than aggressive young pu I guess.

I just don't understand how you dislike Changtai (I must admit I had only two cakes and both were good, yet nonaggressive, not that much experience) and enjoy Xizihao - what I had from Xizihao was the mildest tea ever.

I think there are really two matters that prevent this discussion from happy ending - first, there are the mentioned personal tastes. E.g., Hobbes likes a certain aggressivity in tea, I do not (or not nearly as much). That hints who will prefer Yiwu and who Bulang.

Second, I'm not sure that both sides here drank what the opposition thinks to be the top of certain area. If I was to judge Yiwu by what I had from Xizihao and Cheng Guang He Tang, I guess I'd never buy another Yiwu. But there are other makers too.

Do we actually know for sure that what has been milder and kind to the drinker when mid-aged (the tea, not the drinker) will age into a bland thing? By "know", I mean at least statistical knowledge of e.g. 100 Yiwu/Yibang/etc. cakes that were smooth, sweet and nonaggressive when 5 years old and became stale and boring after 30 years? I think we do not know that at all.
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Re: Resolved: Western Banna Leaves ages better than the East

Postby TwoDog2 » Oct 17th, '12, 03:17

JakubT wrote:shah8
I just don't understand how you dislike Changtai (I must admit I had only two cakes and both were good, yet nonaggressive, not that much experience) and enjoy Xizihao - what I had from Xizihao was the mildest tea ever.



Let's everybody just cool out. COOL OUT.

(I've seen Shah kill men for less)
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Re: Resolved: Western Banna Leaves ages better than the East

Postby shah82 » Oct 17th, '12, 03:21

/me shrugs

I don't find XZH mild. I like XZH because they have a very good balance of smooth and power, usually. And when they do go for power, there is just no doubting it.

Even so, XZH Yiwu, for example, is much heavier than YangQingHao Yiwu, which all seems to be light and delicate. But YQH Yiwu is really, really, good, on a good day. It's not a mild tea, despite all that lightness.

Changtai is mild. It's uninteresting. Supermellow. When it's good, it's allright. The '99 Song has thickness, qi, and sweetness on it's side, but it's a very boring session with not much happening.

If you like Changtai, prefer Changtai to XZH, that's really awesome for you. You get to buy tea cheaper!
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Re: Resolved: Western Banna Leaves ages better than the East

Postby JakubT » Oct 17th, '12, 03:23

I ment it "coolly", not in an offensive way :)

Besides, the difference is that Shah had the good Xizihaos while I have not. Still, I would expect they would be in certain ways similar to what I had.
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Re: Resolved: Western Banna Leaves ages better than the East

Postby MarshalN » Oct 17th, '12, 03:29

shah82 wrote:Changtai sucks, man. Way too mild, most of the time.


Agreed. I have a seller in HK who has a stock of 01 Yichanghao. If any of you want some, it can be had for $200 a cake. Nothing too impressive, but I guess it's ok to drink now. Yichanghao isn't even gushu, so why are we talking about them?

Jakub: I think you mean chill out?

JakubT wrote:Second, I'm not sure that both sides here drank what the opposition thinks to be the top of certain area. If I was to judge Yiwu by what I had from Xizihao and Cheng Guang He Tang, I guess I'd never buy another Yiwu. But there are other makers too.


Which XZH or CGHTs have you tried? The thing is, they're all different. Some are great, others are crap.
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Re: Resolved: Western Banna Leaves ages better than the East

Postby shah82 » Oct 17th, '12, 03:42

Not all XZH are the same. Not all of their takes are the best. Not everyone likes how they choose their leaf.

I *know* there are better teas out there, but usually, when I see suggestions about such choices, I tended to dismiss them. Chenshenghao laobanzhang? Diancha? Hailanghao??

Look, as these things go, XZH comes by their rep honestly. They've had a lot more successful years than many other boutique makers, and flat out, they've made mildly landmark cakes. That Mengsa practice cake is a zillion times better than the '99 Changtai, that's for sure.

Anyways, I can't tell you what to enjoy, but I do think I can say that I've had enough standard Changtai style cakes to know I don't like them. I'm not exactly *lonely* among people who don't usually prefer a Changtai blend, either. They do nice stuff from time to time, but I'm not sure many of them, especially past '03, would ever give me as nice a time as the '05 MingYuanHao on a good day.
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Re: Resolved: Western Banna Leaves ages better than the East

Postby JakubT » Oct 17th, '12, 04:10

MarshalN wrote:
Jakub: I think you mean chill out?

Quite so.

MarshalN wrote:
JakubT wrote:Second, I'm not sure that both sides here drank what the opposition thinks to be the top of certain area. If I was to judge Yiwu by what I had from Xizihao and Cheng Guang He Tang, I guess I'd never buy another Yiwu. But there are other makers too.


Which XZH or CGHTs have you tried? The thing is, they're all different. Some are great, others are crap.


XZH: 2007 Longfeng, 2007 Chawang, 2009 Jin Xuan, 2010&2011 Laowushan, 2010 Manning, 2010 Bulang Xian Zhu.

CGHT: 1999 Yiwu, 2001 Mengsa, 2006 Yi Wu Ye Cha.


shah: Well, using the Hobbes argument backwards, if you look at Hobbes' writing about Changtai, it is usually pretty good.

Anyway, as I said, I had only two Changtais which were, probably by luck, good (imo), I've heard that their things aren't always that good too.
I think that I'll buy some things from thechineseteashop next month - including one of the Changtais. How about you send me your address via PM and I'll send you a sample? I myself wonder if I lack taste that much or I just was lucky trying that Changtai cake.
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