Puerh with High Energy


One of the intentionally aged teas, Pu-Erh has a loyal following.

Re: Puerh with High Energy

Postby ImmortaliTEA » Nov 19th, '12, 04:50

I had a sort of epiphany "tea moment" or I guess you could call it a "Qi moment", perhaps even a "tea Qi moment" lol. Immediately after the experience I thought to myself that it needs to be recorded (and where else but the "Puerh with High Energy" thread) and shared. I've only had pre-80's Sheng puerh maybe a dozen or two times in my life and pre-70's experiences could be counted on one hand. I specifically remember when I first experienced Tim's 85' 8582. I was completely blown away and immediately understood without a shadow of a doubt what this (at that time new & strange) category of tea was all about. I started buying a lot of it because it was literally one of the only teas I had discovered (at that early point in my tea drinking journey) that had so much complexity & subtle nuances that I could never get bored of it and literally every single time I drank it I discovered so many new things that I hadn't experienced prior. So after drinking that tea heavily & steadily for about 2-3 months, I wanted to compare it to other aged teas. So I bought some small samples from EoT, one of which was the 1960's Guang Yun Gong. I brewed it up in the same 40 ml Mou LvNi "little blue" that I've always brewed my pre-1990 aged shengs in (including 8582). I noticed that it was much much "woodier" tasting (for lack of a better word) than the 8582 and other aged shengs I had tasted at that point. Also, I noticed that I didn't get nearly as many brews out of it when compared to the 8582 with the same amount of leaves & infusion times. I was deeply puzzled and wondered whether the original leaf blend was of lower quality or something to that effect in my limited knowledge at the time. Since it was fairly early on in my tea journey, I had very little understanding of Qi (although I did know what it was from Kung Fu & other aspects of Chinese culture, just not how to properly distinguish it specifically for teas). This tiny piece of information is precisely the reason why I thought the GYG was so vastly inferior at the time. So now on to my experience... I recently got a (very generous) free 10 g sample of 1960's Guang Yun Gong again as a birthday gift to add to my birthday order of a few Hong Ni & Zhu Ni yixings. This would be only my second time experiencing this tea, but this time I was ready and felt I had a good enough understanding of Qi & aged puerh in general to be able to really enjoy this tea (I was gonna say "evaluate" but when you get ahold of shengs this old, enjoyment usually seems to automatically trump any effort to try to evaluate or record notes of any kind). So this time I brewed it up in the 3-month seasoned Hong Ni Shui Ping (60 ml & med-fired) I recently showed in the Show-off thread. I still didn't find the taste to be amazing in any way, however, the Qi changed the way I look at puerh & even life as Tim once put it. It felt as if the whole entire world had slowed to a screeching halt and I was the only person completely in that present moment. This euphoria was unmatched and continually rose in power & intensity, lasting for an astonishing 4 hours and perhaps even longer considering it knocked me smooth out at that point (sleeping like a baby!) and wouldn't know if it lasted longer. My third eye began pulsating at a level I often strive to achieve during meditation. It was the most profound and intense silence I have ever experienced (even compared to some of my best meditation sessions) and literally felt as though enlightenment had been attained right then and there no questions asked. Sorry for the long story here but I find it very interesting that I once thought this tea was mediocre and didn't have much to offer solely because I didn't yet have the proper knowledge & understanding of Qi and that people drink puerh mainly for the Qi & not the flavor or aroma. This was a very eye opening and "enlightening" experience and further backs up my conclusion of "the older the better" at least when it comes to my preferences. Also, this backs up my theory that people slowly build up their ability to feel & distinguish Qi (from tea or otherwise) over time until they are much more sensitive to it than someone who is new to Qi or flat out denies its existence; I like to call these people "placebo pushers" & feel its an insult to Chinese culture (with as much respect that a Gwailo such as I can possibly give to this amazing culture as it has literally saved my life and changed the way I view everything). Wow sorry again for going off on a tangent but this has become extremely important in my life and wanted to share my thoughts and opinions on this extraordinary subject. Thanks!

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Re: Puerh with High Energy

Postby yanom » Nov 19th, '12, 06:10

Nice read and: as I started reading I wondered if -- given the necessarily limited range supplied by the few Western vendors -- I could guess the tea, and I did! I had a pot of this a few months ago and it became my reference point for thinking about qi. And because I've still got 5g left I've been waiting for a good time to have a second pot of the stuff, after reading your post I think it'll have to be quite soon!
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Re: Puerh with High Energy

Postby needaTEAcher » Nov 20th, '12, 10:37

Great post, Immortality! Congrats on the moment. I could feel it there as I read it. I really agree with evaluation taking a back seat to enjoyment on the older teas, especially enjoyment of the physical sensation. I find really old teas can be so soft that while I love the taste, I would drink some younger teas if it were only for flavor. But the qi feeling of an old, old tea is so amazing!

I have also had the privilege of '85 8582, and WOW! That same day, we had 4 teas. all 8582: new, mid 90s, 85, and 80. I was confused about the 80, since I thought the 85 indicated the year of the recipe, but it was explained to me that the 8582 recipe is older (I think it was mid 70s-anyone care to chime in?), but was recategorized in 85 due to something governmental. Has anyone else heard this? Anyway, I loved it, though, unlike pretty much everyone else, I find I gravitate towards the solid and consistant flavor of 7542 (we did a similar tasting with 7542 another day).

I usually drink tea only before 4 or 5pm, but tonight I was offered a 1965 Yonmu Mountain (Korean transliteration...sorry!) sheng at about 6:00pm. I couldn't say no to that at midnight, even. I drank quite a bit, and now, at 10:30, I am still so wired I doubt I will be able to sleep! Talk about high energy....my tolerance is down due to travel and less regular sipping, and so this is really almost too much chaqi for me to handle right now. My lower core feels like it is on fire. But oh, what a wonderful feeling. I hope I crash out like you did, Immortal. Happy sipping all, and thanks for the read. :)
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Re: Puerh with High Energy

Postby gasninja » Nov 20th, '12, 22:41

I The da ye qing bing that was the prototype for the 8582 I believe came around in the early 80's. I don't think they where around in the 70's but I am the farthest thing from an expert. Either way It is not the same as a normal 8582 in a few aspects the main one being it contains old tree material. I have heard from a vendor that sold the 85 8582 that some of the 85 8582's contained yiwu gushu (not Tim but I think he may have mentioned something about yiwu as well ). So there is going to be a difference in the recipe between the 85 8582s, the pre 85 prototypes,and a standard 8582 cake.
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Re: Puerh with High Energy

Postby Drax » Nov 20th, '12, 22:49

Imm -- great description, thanks for sharing!
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Re: Puerh with High Energy

Postby wyardley » Nov 20th, '12, 23:21

At least one of my Chinese language pu'er books (《普洱茶譜》) seems to mention a mid-70s 8582 (pp72-73), as well as 80s ones (p74), if I'm reading it right; the 70s ones have a reference to 7582 as well, but not sure what they're saying. Deng Shihai's two-volume set (on page 58-59 of one of the volumes) doesn't seem to mention any dates outside the mid-80s, though the text is a bit too dense for me to even make any guesses at. Chan Kam Pong's "A Glossary of Chinese Puerh Tea" suggests 1985 as the origin.

FWIW, I believe 7582 is a partially ripe recipe. The fact that there's a 7582 might be one reason why there's also an 8582.
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Re: Puerh with High Energy

Postby gasninja » Nov 21st, '12, 09:19

I have seen pics 70s 7582's. But I have never heard about it being partialy ripe. Neither the 97 or the mid oo 7582 that I have seem to be in any part shu.I have also tried a 96 8542. But I know less about that. I am really interested in these cakes that have the same grade as another famous cake. I know the mid 00 7582( I think 05) is purported to be a blend of Yi wu and Bada Moacha. I don't know if this is just for that year or all years of production.
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Re: Puerh with High Energy

Postby wyardley » Nov 21st, '12, 12:18

gasninja wrote:I have seen pics 70s 7582's. But I have never heard about it being partialy ripe.

Cloud's book calls it a 'slightly ripe' recipe (Glossary, p170). Most of the other references to it, I do see it categorized as sheng. I will try to scan the bits from Deng Shihai's book (the article on 7582 actually seems to have some clarification on the 7582 / 8582 issue) after vacation if someone is willing to translate / summarize.
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Re: Puerh with High Energy

Postby needaTEAcher » Nov 21st, '12, 19:20

Thanks Wyardly!
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Re: Puerh with High Energy

Postby gasninja » Nov 22nd, '12, 11:38

wyardley wrote:
gasninja wrote:I have seen pics 70s 7582's. But I have never heard about it being partialy ripe.

Cloud's book calls it a 'slightly ripe' recipe (Glossary, p170). Most of the other references to it, I do see it categorized as sheng. I will try to scan the bits from Deng Shihai's book (the article on 7582 actually seems to have some clarification on the 7582 / 8582 issue) after vacation if someone is willing to translate / summarize.

Wow I guess I never noticed that. In first steps cloud labels it as ripe as well. Any more info would be great. I know in the 70,s they where making ripe and raw teas with the same recipe name . Like the raw version of the 7572. I know the 97 and 06 ( not 05)are both raw. Thanks Will
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Re: Puerh with High Energy

Postby TwoDog2 » Nov 22nd, '12, 22:06

Great discussion. Does anyone have a cut off date of when they think 8582 started to decline (or if you want to take up a difficult argument, that it has not declined?) The only recent 8582 I have is a 2010, and I might have a 2005 in storage. For example, how are the 90's compared to this 85, Imm? Apart from age differences, what are your impressions of the material used?
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Re: Puerh with High Energy

Postby needaTEAcher » Nov 24th, '12, 09:28

My teacher says that the decline was throughout the 90s, and this is for all of Meng Hai btw, but in my opinion the 90s and even late 90s Meng Hai tea is great, so long as it is stored well (I have had some pretty bad renditions). For me, personally, I try to avoid post-2000, but really it is when they privatized that I think it all went downhill. That was, what, 2002? 2004? Not sure off the top of my head. I think some of the tea elders here can give more concrete answers though.
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Re: Puerh with High Energy

Postby ImmortaliTEA » Nov 24th, '12, 20:27

needaTEAcher wrote:My teacher says that the decline was throughout the 90s, and this is for all of Meng Hai btw, but in my opinion the 90s and even late 90s Meng Hai tea is great, so long as it is stored well (I have had some pretty bad renditions). For me, personally, I try to avoid post-2000, but really it is when they privatized that I think it all went downhill. That was, what, 2002? 2004? Not sure off the top of my head. I think some of the tea elders here can give more concrete answers though.


"When did Meng­hai become pri­vate?
Meng­hai Tea Fac­tory started pro­duc­ing com­mer­cial prod­ucts in 1989 under their own Dayi brand. By 1996, all of the prod­ucts were of the pri­vate brand. Dur­ing the tran­si­tion period, for­eign tea orders (includ­ing Hong Kong) were made only via the government’s CNNP, until reforms finally allowed the orig­i­nal tea fac­to­ries to fill orders directly."

Compliments of B's own blog Wrong Fu Cha! I hope it's ok I quoted from it but it just seemed like the perfect info for the question. Thanks.

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Re: Puerh with High Energy

Postby ImmortaliTEA » Nov 24th, '12, 21:10

TwoDog2 wrote:Great discussion. Does anyone have a cut off date of when they think 8582 started to decline (or if you want to take up a difficult argument, that it has not declined?) The only recent 8582 I have is a 2010, and I might have a 2005 in storage. For example, how are the 90's compared to this 85, Imm? Apart from age differences, what are your impressions of the material used?


I know it seems rather biased with prior knowledge of the dates of the transition of Menghai to Dayi, however, that fact does not and will not ever trump actual taste buds of the discerning aficionado. In this case I'm not the aficionado in mind to give you a definitive answer on this because I've only tasted 4 different examples of 8582 and I don't think that's even close to enough to make an accurate assessment of when the decline began (especially considering the wide range of examples with different storage conditions). The ones I've tasted are the 85', 96', 00', & 06'. Obviously for me the order of the dates is the same order I would rank them from best to worst or highest quality to lowest quality. So since the best quality was from between 85'-96' based on my tastings, my conclusion is that the privatization seems to have had something to do with the decline (just as needaTEAcher said), or perhaps there were more Old Arbor tree's back in the day, so they were more inclined to use better material more often. Wow I wrote another paragraph explaining why I'm not the guy to answer this question. Well I hope others here have tasted more examples of 8582 over the years so we can get a more definitive answer on this. (I could write a another whole paragraph on the 7542, but to make it short ill say that I've tasted many more of those than 8582's and I'd stick with my original assessment and say it follows the same suit as the 8582 according to my taste buds that is). Hope to hear from others. Thanks!

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Last edited by ImmortaliTEA on Nov 25th, '12, 14:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Puerh with High Energy

Postby brandon » Nov 24th, '12, 22:46

Might not be perfect, hard to pinpoint exactly because the liberalization was gradual and applied unevenly. For example, three private investors were allowed to purchase and reopen the then defunct Kunming before Menghai and XG went private. And a lot of things kept coming in zhongcha wrappers until much later.
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