Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea


One of the intentionally aged teas, Pu-Erh has a loyal following.

Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby theredbaron » Mar 22nd, '13, 05:43

TwoDog2 wrote:
Tead Off wrote:
gingkoseto wrote:And for me, dry storage aroma only :D



Is this something that most people agree with in this thread?

"Dry storage" is only ideal for me if it is on the humid side of dry.

I am rarely very enthralled with tea stored in very dry conditions.




I definitely with you there. Dry as with Kunming storage, etc, is not what i am looking for.
Maybe it's just what i am used to and like best - my own home stored teas and teas that have been naturally stored in similar climates.
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby Tead Off » Mar 22nd, '13, 06:16

theredbaron wrote:
TwoDog2 wrote:
Tead Off wrote:
gingkoseto wrote:And for me, dry storage aroma only :D



Is this something that most people agree with in this thread?

"Dry storage" is only ideal for me if it is on the humid side of dry.

I am rarely very enthralled with tea stored in very dry conditions.




I definitely with you there. Dry as with Kunming storage, etc, is not what i am looking for.
Maybe it's just what i am used to and like best - my own home stored teas and teas that have been naturally stored in similar climates.

My teas stored here in BKK have been in constant 26-35℃ temp with no humidity control at all. None have any wet storage aroma or taste. Can we really call it 'dry storage'? I don't think so, but they were not stored in an environment that allowed them to get funky. I think a lot of the teas that have that mildew/musty aroma were badly stored teas. It seems quite possible that humid places like HK and Guangdong, and even in Jinghong, can store teas where they don't develop the funkiness and make full use of the heat and humidity for aging teas properly. Do producers and vendors really try to attain that funkiness in their cakes? I would love to hear from Nada and others that actually make cakes and have a view to their ultimate aged profile.
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby yanom » Mar 22nd, '13, 06:44

I quite like the tastes in super-young puerh but not puerh that is older than a year but still "undeveloped", i.e. less than 10 years warm/humid storage, or even older stuff that's been stored dry.

I really hate those "green" "undeveloped" flavours but more often than not it's what I get from samples that are maybe 10 years old, end up having to throw them all away.

While for the older, developed puerh, the flavours aren't all that important I still think they can contribute to the overall thrill or comfort that comes from the drink. Part of the fun is that these are not flavours that you would normally think would be nice in a drink! Earth, mellow rot, hint of sour bite.

Not a fan of tons of sweetness but there might be a cultural thing there: I understand that sugar is very prevalent in the US where big, punchier flavours are normally preferred in, say, wine, than would be for people outside the US.
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby theredbaron » Mar 22nd, '13, 06:50

Tead Off wrote:
theredbaron wrote:
TwoDog2 wrote:
Tead Off wrote:
gingkoseto wrote:And for me, dry storage aroma only :D



Is this something that most people agree with in this thread?

"Dry storage" is only ideal for me if it is on the humid side of dry.

I am rarely very enthralled with tea stored in very dry conditions.




I definitely with you there. Dry as with Kunming storage, etc, is not what i am looking for.
Maybe it's just what i am used to and like best - my own home stored teas and teas that have been naturally stored in similar climates.

My teas stored here in BKK have been in constant 26-35℃ temp with no humidity control at all. None have any wet storage aroma or taste. Can we really call it 'dry storage'? I don't think so, but they were not stored in an environment that allowed them to get funky. I think a lot of the teas that have that mildew/musty aroma were badly stored teas. It seems quite possible that humid places like HK and Guangdong, and even in Jinghong, can store teas where they don't develop the funkiness and make full use of the heat and humidity for aging teas properly. Do producers and vendors really try to attain that funkiness in their cakes? I would love to hear from Nada and others that actually make cakes and have a view to their ultimate aged profile.



As you say, the term "dry storage" is a bit difficult. What here in Bangkok is dry storage is a lot wetter than Kumning.
I have only had a few teas turn musty, which i have forgotten for a few years in a wooden box. My other teas turned out great, so far, over the past 12 years or so, since i started my Pu Erh journey.

But maybe is has to do with particular micro climates which can be somewhat independent of geographical location? The other day i tried a tea that was supposedly stored in Kunming, and it was definitely musty. Maybe it was stored in a bad building, or in a bad room? No idea.

I do smell my teas regularly, especially in the rain season. When i detect even a slight off smell in a cake i shift it straight to a more exposed location on the tea shelf until i can only smell pure aging tea again.

Maybe some people are attracted to the musty smell and taste, or don't mind?
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby Tead Off » Mar 22nd, '13, 07:22

theredbaron wrote:
Tead Off wrote:
theredbaron wrote:
TwoDog2 wrote:
Tead Off wrote:
gingkoseto wrote:And for me, dry storage aroma only :D



Is this something that most people agree with in this thread?

"Dry storage" is only ideal for me if it is on the humid side of dry.

I am rarely very enthralled with tea stored in very dry conditions.


I definitely with you there. Dry as with Kunming storage, etc, is not what i am looking for.
Maybe it's just what i am used to and like best - my own home stored teas and teas that have been naturally stored in similar climates.

My teas stored here in BKK have been in constant 26-35℃ temp with no humidity control at all. None have any wet storage aroma or taste. Can we really call it 'dry storage'? I don't think so, but they were not stored in an environment that allowed them to get funky. I think a lot of the teas that have that mildew/musty aroma were badly stored teas. It seems quite possible that humid places like HK and Guangdong, and even in Jinghong, can store teas where they don't develop the funkiness and make full use of the heat and humidity for aging teas properly. Do producers and vendors really try to attain that funkiness in their cakes? I would love to hear from Nada and others that actually make cakes and have a view to their ultimate aged profile.



As you say, the term "dry storage" is a bit difficult. What here in Bangkok is dry storage is a lot wetter than Kumning.
I have only had a few teas turn musty, which i have forgotten for a few years in a wooden box. My other teas turned out great, so far, over the past 12 years or so, since i started my Pu Erh journey.

But maybe is has to do with particular micro climates which can be somewhat independent of geographical location? The other day i tried a tea that was supposedly stored in Kunming, and it was definitely musty. Maybe it was stored in a bad building, or in a bad room? No idea.

I do smell my teas regularly, especially in the rain season. When i detect even a slight off smell in a cake i shift it straight to a more exposed location on the tea shelf until i can only smell pure aging tea again.

Maybe some people are attracted to the musty smell and taste, or don't mind?


+1!
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby gingkoseto » Mar 22nd, '13, 08:20

Tead Off wrote:
theredbaron wrote:
TwoDog2 wrote:
Tead Off wrote:
gingkoseto wrote:And for me, dry storage aroma only :D



Is this something that most people agree with in this thread?

"Dry storage" is only ideal for me if it is on the humid side of dry.

I am rarely very enthralled with tea stored in very dry conditions.




I definitely with you there. Dry as with Kunming storage, etc, is not what i am looking for.
Maybe it's just what i am used to and like best - my own home stored teas and teas that have been naturally stored in similar climates.

My teas stored here in BKK have been in constant 26-35℃ temp with no humidity control at all. [url]None have any wet storage aroma or taste[/url]. Can we really call it 'dry storage'? I don't think so


That's my definition of purely dry storage. Even in Guangdong, many people practice this definition of purely dry storage, with seasonal dehumidifier.
However, I don't know why some people think of Kunming as a dry place. I've never heard any non-tea people complaining Kunming as dry. To me, Kunming is one of the places "most suitable for human living", and I don't think tea storage conditions largely conflict with human living conditions.

So basically in my book you guys are all dry storage guys :mrgreen:
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby yanom » Mar 22nd, '13, 08:47

Surely a Kunming resident who flies to Bangkok is going to notice a big difference when he steps out the plane? I'm guessing tea would too.

If Bangkok's climate counts as "dry" for ageing tea, what kind of hot/humid climate consitutes non-dry?
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby lordsbm » Mar 22nd, '13, 09:31

555 Storage is always one of the most debatable pu erh topics.

From my reading, I conclude temperature and humidity similar to that of dry store in Yunnan is dry store. Meaning you control the temper & humidity similar to in Yunnan.

Whatever else is natural stored, meaning you don't do much control over temperature and humidity, as long it don't get "wet" or over musty and no mold.

Wet store is when you purposely introduce moisture.

Of people will disagree, but it's ok to disagree. Just part of personal sharing anyway :lol:

As long you are happy with the result of your storage who else to say you are wrong. You are the one drinking your tea & it's your money :lol:

For me I'll likely split the tea into 2 groups. One group I intend to store for more than 15 years, which will be wrapped in ziplock/food wrap to slow down the aging process. The rest keep in paper bag or box. All will need dehumidifier as Singapore can get too humid :lol:
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby JakubT » Mar 22nd, '13, 09:49

lordsbm wrote:555 Storage is always one of the most debatable pu erh topics.

From my reading, I conclude temperature and humidity similar to that of dry store in Yunnan is dry store. Meaning you control the temper & humidity similar to in Yunnan.

Whatever else is natural stored, meaning you don't do much control over temperature and humidity, as long it don't get "wet" or over musty and no mold.

Wet store is when you purposely introduce moisture.

Of people will disagree, but it's ok to disagree. Just part of personal sharing anyway :lol:

As long you are happy with the result of your storage who else to say you are wrong. You are the one drinking your tea & it's your money :lol:

For me I'll likely split the tea into 2 groups. One group I intend to store for more than 15 years, which will be wrapped in ziplock/food wrap to slow down the aging process. The rest keep in paper bag or box. All will need dehumidifier as Singapore can get too humid :lol:


Agreed that natural storage is a better term for many above examples of aging condition.

Why are you putting the cakes for aging to ziplock bags? Do you think there's a good background on why it should help? According to some Fuchaju teas aged in such a way, I would rather believe in the opposite.

I am no biologist (or, at least, not knowing much on bacteria and molds), but I guess that lack of oxygen may destroy some molds and bacteria in pu, which could theoretically stop the aging altogether.

It seems that teas which are made age too slowly are like women who try to age slowly...

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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby lordsbm » Mar 22nd, '13, 10:02

JakubT wrote:Agreed that natural storage is a better term for many above examples of aging condition.

Why are you putting the cakes for aging to ziplock bags? Do you think there's a good background on why it should help? According to some Fuchaju teas aged in such a way, I would rather believe in the opposite.

I am no biologist (or, at least, not knowing much on bacteria and molds), but I guess that lack of oxygen may destroy some molds and bacteria in pu, which could theoretically stop the aging altogether.

It seems that teas which are made age too slowly are like women who try to age slowly...


Look in 'Oolong Puerh' processing thread, there's a link to a blog which a guy compared his 2 pu erh 1 in ziplock bag then other stored in his shop after 1 year.

There are other examples too around the web. I personally kept a pumpkin shu in a plastic bag (most air squeezed out), although not sealed, but it's tighten with a rubber band and stored in the cupboard untouched. That was in 2005.

A couple months I took out as I started to be interested in pu erh. Some small parts have white mold growing on it. If even mold can grow then tea can age, no? :lol:

edit: Isn't it also quite known that tea only age to certain years and they start gowing downhill? Like lose the aroma and become bland?

Anyway, it's just what I believed based on my encounters and read up. Believe what you want :)
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby JakubT » Mar 22nd, '13, 10:18

lordsbm wrote:edit: Isn't it also quite known that tea only age to certain years and they start gowing downhill? Like lose the aroma and become bland?

Anyway, it's just what I believed based on my encounters and read up. Believe what you want :)


a) Yes, it is known, but that's with 40 or so years old cakes.

b) Well, I'll believe what I want anyway... I always do.
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby lordsbm » Mar 22nd, '13, 10:23

JakubT wrote:a) Yes, it is known, but that's with 40 or so years old cakes.


:lol: That's debatable again. Some said it depends on tea and storage, could be as quick as 15 years. Others feel 25 years and u think it's 40 years.

Doesn't matter really, we just do what we feel is right :lol: It's like bringing up kids, that's no fix way. There're are only guides and decisions :lol:

edit: gah... I shouldn't linked tea to children :roll: It's ultimately just a cup of tea, shouldn't be so serious over things, unless it gives joy :lol:

edit: So my ultimate tea is those that can bring me joy and happiness :lol:
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby Tead Off » Mar 22nd, '13, 10:55

JakubT wrote:
lordsbm wrote:edit: Isn't it also quite known that tea only age to certain years and they start gowing downhill? Like lose the aroma and become bland?

Anyway, it's just what I believed based on my encounters and read up. Believe what you want :)


a) Yes, it is known, but that's with 40 or so years old cakes.

b) Well, I'll believe what I want anyway... I always do.

If you compare to wines, all teas will not age at the same rate. Too many variables. Some wines can go decades, some no more than a handful of years. then it goes flat. What is interesting to me is how many different views there are. Maybe some of those views are erroneous, yet you are right. We will believe what we want.
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby yanom » Mar 22nd, '13, 11:11

Believe what you want

Isn't that called wishful thinking? :mrgreen:
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby lordsbm » Mar 22nd, '13, 11:14

yanom wrote:
Believe what you want

Isn't that called wishful thinking? :mrgreen:


:lol: Well if one believe hard enough, it becomes hallucination. So in a way it's real to that person. As long no real harm and the person is happy, why bother :lol:
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