Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea


One of the intentionally aged teas, Pu-Erh has a loyal following.

Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby nada » Mar 22nd, '13, 13:15

Tead Off wrote:...Do producers and vendors really try to attain that funkiness in their cakes? I would love to hear from Nada and others that actually make cakes and have a view to their ultimate aged profile.


I'm not sure that I really have enough experience to answer that properly - or to be able to proclaim with certainty how the cakes I press will actually age.

From conversations with more experienced producers and extrapolation of whatever experiences I've had with young and old cakes, the flavours seem to be the most fickle characteristic, and subject to change. The thickness, vibrancy and qi seem to be elements of the tea that carry through the years and deliver real satisfaction when drinking it.

With dry/wet/natural/funky storage - the appreciation/revulsion of these is in the end down to personal preference of the end drinker. There's plenty of people in Taiwan who can't stand Kunming stored tea and plenty of people in Kunming who can't stand Taiwan stored tea. People seem to like that with which they have become accustomed.
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby gingkoseto » Mar 22nd, '13, 21:12

lordsbm wrote:edit: Isn't it also quite known that tea only age to certain years and they start gowing downhill? Like lose the aroma and become bland?

Anyway, it's just what I believed based on my encounters and read up. Believe what you want :)


Strictly speaking, it's not a "belief." It's called 2nd law of thermodynamics, based on scientific logic.
I can't say I totally understand that law (physics geeks can give better explanation). But if I dare to put it in simple words, I would say, it's about "nothing lasts forever", and so far nobody could disprove this law :mrgreen:
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby gingkoseto » Mar 22nd, '13, 21:38

yanom wrote:Surely a Kunming resident who flies to Bangkok is going to notice a big difference when he steps out the plane? I'm guessing tea would too.

If Bangkok's climate counts as "dry" for ageing tea, what kind of hot/humid climate consitutes non-dry?

I would define "dry storage" by the choice of storage style instead of simply by places. If one stores tea in a desert but let seasonal storm flood his warehouse, then it's not dry storage. I don't think anybody would consider Bangkok's climate as "dry" - I've never been there though, but may be Tead Off wouldn't want to store his tea on the western or northern side of his first floor right next to the wall. If someone uses a half-basement (common practice for humid storage) of Bangkok to store tea, I wouldn't call it dry-storage.
On the other hand, I suspect not all the people who think of Kunming as dry have an accurate idea about its humidity level.
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby shah82 » Mar 22nd, '13, 22:19

The problem with Kunming isn't necessarily that it's dry. It's that people there did not always take care of their tea. Atlanta is drier than Kunming, and most of my tea is aging faster than what Kunming tea is like.

Thing is, take Hobbe's experience with the Muyechun '07...his tea tastes aged, but Guangdong stored tea, where it is hot and humid, tastes less aged. In drier places, bad tea has nasty greener tastes, astringency issues. In wetter places, bad tea is musty or otherwise off.
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby futurebird » Mar 22nd, '13, 22:20

theredbaron wrote:Maybe some people are attracted to the musty smell and taste, or don't mind?


Can you describe more of what you mean by "musty" --or is it more musky?

What I'm talking about is the smell of the pages of a 50-year old book stored in a dry place. It's also like the smell of rafters in an attic.

To me that's "musty" and I think it's a really wonderful quality for tea. I even have perfume in this smell that I wear:

http://www.demeterfragrance.com/704154/ ... rback.html

though this perfume is more sweet (much more sweet!) than the smell from tea, it still illustres the idea that people like this smell.

but i by "musty" you mean the odor of dried fish, pond scum and wet black mold... well I'm with you don't want it in the tea.
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby Emmett » Mar 22nd, '13, 22:28

My favorite flavors would be of leather and mushrooms, with a honey and slight fruit finish. Yiwu teas. Usually decent cakes a bit over 10 years aged.

It does depend on what I feel like on that certain day, as sometimes I want something sweet and fruitfull. Newer arbor cakes usually.

The mouthfeel is very important to me also, I especially like some spiciness, and camphor sensation on the palate. Xiaguan tuochas usually do the trick.

And of course chi, warming strong chi that will send me to do some chi kung. From wild tree of course
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby gingkoseto » Mar 22nd, '13, 22:39

shah82 wrote:The problem with Kunming isn't necessarily that it's dry. It's that people there did not always take care of their tea. Atlanta is drier than Kunming, and most of my tea is aging faster than what Kunming tea is like.

Yeah that I can totally understand. My earlier comment was after some comments about Kunming "dry".
Some people believe Xishuangbanna is better for dry storage than Kunming for its higher humidity. But a problem is quite similar to what you said, there aren't many professional collectors in Banna yet.
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby futurebird » Mar 22nd, '13, 22:48

One last comment I still have no idea what people mean by "camphor" -- is there another way to describe it? Or is it just a pleasant young green taste/smell like the smell of a new leaf?
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby theredbaron » Mar 22nd, '13, 22:49

shah82 wrote:In wetter places, bad tea is musty or otherwise off.


Not necessarily.
In wetter places you have to just be more careful that that the tea does not meet too much humidity during storage, by placing it into the drier parts of your house, and to check for off smells regularly, especially in the wet seasons.
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby AdamMY » Mar 22nd, '13, 22:49

futurebird wrote:One last comment I still have no idea what people mean by "camphor" -- is there another way to describe it? Or is it just a pleasant young green taste/smell like the smell of a new leaf?



Hopefully someone else chimes in, but I have heard it described as a woody and minty profile. Often similar to Vicks Vapor rub. Once you realize what it is, it is in a lot of aged puerh.
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby Tead Off » Mar 22nd, '13, 22:53

futurebird wrote:One last comment I still have no idea what people mean by "camphor" -- is there another way to describe it? Or is it just a pleasant young green taste/smell like the smell of a new leaf?

The Chinese have certain 'keywords' to describe flavor and aroma. Camphor, orchid, and plum, are a few of those words that flavor and smell will be like. Camphor is usually a developed taste in some aged teas, not all. Maybe one of our experts could list the different words used to describe aroma and flavor that the Chinese have put into practice.
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby theredbaron » Mar 22nd, '13, 22:55

futurebird wrote:One last comment I still have no idea what people mean by "camphor" -- is there another way to describe it? Or is it just a pleasant young green taste/smell like the smell of a new leaf?


No, not green taste at all, more on the opposite.

As to your question about musty: maybe another description would be the smell of rotting leaves in late autumn, or when you stuffed a wet towel into a plastic bag, and left it there for a few hours.

Well aged Pu Erh lost it's green taste, yet transformed into something that still gives a very clean tasting liquid with complexity and nuances. It's very difficult to describe.
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby lordsbm » Mar 22nd, '13, 23:02

gingkoseto wrote:Strictly speaking, it's not a "belief." It's called 2nd law of thermodynamics, based on scientific logic.
I can't say I totally understand that law (physics geeks can give better explanation). But if I dare to put it in simple words, I would say, it's about "nothing lasts forever", and so far nobody could disprove this law :mrgreen:


:lol: Yes I can drink to that :lol:
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby futurebird » Mar 22nd, '13, 23:07

theredbaron wrote:As to your question about musty: maybe another description would be the smell of rotting leaves in late autumn, or when you stuffed a wet towel into a plastic bag, and left it there for a few hours.


Yeah, that's exactly the "bad" kind of fishy/pondy "musty" not what I like. Is there anyone who likes that?

I think of it as "woe dui" as in woe-is-me dui. :lol:
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Re: Puehr Fave flavor notes...seeking your personal ultimate tea

Postby lordsbm » Mar 22nd, '13, 23:09

futurebird wrote:One last comment I still have no idea what people mean by "camphor" -- is there another way to describe it? Or is it just a pleasant young green taste/smell like the smell of a new leaf?


To my understanding there's 2 versions, one is cheng xiang the other is zhang xiang.

Zhang xiang is achieved by growing pu erh near camphor trees. So there's this camphor aroma when brewed.

Chen xiang is an aroma when shu aged. Some says it'll be closed to jujube aroma and earth woody smell.

IMHO, technically both are right :lol: But what do a newbie knows :lol:

edit: fishy musty smell is closer to those wet stored or natural stored but exposed to semi-high humidity.
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