Metal edges on yixing pots.


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Metal edges on yixing pots.

Postby futurebird » Mar 27th, '13, 12:33

I watch this auction witch fascination:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200903906620?ss ... 1435.l2649

Image
US $2,738.00
( 39 bids )

and this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/390555434325?ss ... 1435.l2649
Image
US $5,655.00
( 37 bids )


If you look at the pots you can see they are quite old, the hand-written signatures is something I've never seen before. But the most interesting feature to my eye is the "gilt" edges. What is the material? Gold? Brass? Why is it there?

So, I was momentarily excited when I saw what looking like a similar pot listed. Perhaps it was not as old and might not command such a high price... take a look:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Estate- ... 35c5ecb317

Oh ebay! :lol:

The "gilt" edges are clearly gold paint... Someone must have seen the other auctions and gotten an idea to get rich... they were fast too! those other auctions only ended only a few days ago!

But what is the deal with the real version of this kind of pot? Is there a name for the style? I'd love to find a more "honest" reproduction. (one made with metal not paint!)
Last edited by futurebird on Mar 27th, '13, 12:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Metal edges on yixing pots.

Postby TIM » Mar 27th, '13, 12:39

SE Asia Exports. Mostly for Thailand early 20th C. They like them to be shinny, also adding protection when use.
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Re: Metal edges on yixing pots.

Postby futurebird » Mar 27th, '13, 12:49

TIM wrote:SE Asia Exports. Mostly for Thailand early 20th C. They like them to be shinny, also adding protection when use.


Do you think the prices are inline with the market? Or inflated?
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Re: Metal edges on yixing pots.

Postby TIM » Mar 27th, '13, 12:50

futurebird wrote:
TIM wrote:SE Asia Exports. Mostly for Thailand early 20th C. They like them to be shinny, also adding protection when use.


Do you think the prices are inline with the market? Or inflated?


about right.

http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/eca ... .3070.html

thats 2008
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/ ... 706dec6171
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Re: Metal edges on yixing pots.

Postby theredbaron » Mar 27th, '13, 14:34

Only problem with these style of pots is that there are huge amount of very well done fakes around. These pots have been hunted down here in Thailand by Taiwanese and Malaysians for at least 30 years, and are also well loved by Thai collectors themselves.
I would not dare to buy one of them - even if i would have the cash.

Real ones in museums i have seen in many sizes, from very small to impractically large (which are cheaper than the small ones). Also many old shops in Chinatown have these pots on display (not for sale).
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Re: Metal edges on yixing pots.

Postby Tead Off » Mar 27th, '13, 14:35

futurebird wrote:
TIM wrote:SE Asia Exports. Mostly for Thailand early 20th C. They like them to be shinny, also adding protection when use.


Do you think the prices are inline with the market? Or inflated?

Can buy them here much cheaper with the right contacts. These look to be good zhuni.
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Re: Metal edges on yixing pots.

Postby futurebird » Mar 27th, '13, 14:54

I'd like to but a very nice reproduction of one of these someday...Once I feel more educated which could take years.

I like reproductions when they are presented honestly.
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Re: Metal edges on yixing pots.

Postby futurebird » Mar 27th, '13, 14:56

theredbaron wrote:Only problem with these style of pots is that there are huge amount of very well done fakes around. These pots have been hunted down here in Thailand by Taiwanese and Malaysians for at least 30 years, and are also well loved by Thai collectors themselves.


I'll assume the ebay link I found with the gold paint is not such an example. :wink:
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Re: Metal edges on yixing pots.

Postby bagua7 » Mar 27th, '13, 16:36



There is a huge difference between those prices, the Sotheby's pot was sold for 25 grand whereas the eBay ones never went past the 6 grand mark. Still the Sotheby's pot is an impressive piece of work and has been professionally cleaned to perfection. Dated "1724" don't expect to buy a pot like that for less than 10 grand.

Out of my league...completely. :lol:

Tead Off wrote:Can buy them here much cheaper with the right contacts.


What sort of prices are those Chinese-Thai pots fetching nowadays?


theredbaron wrote:Only problem with these style of pots is that there are huge amount of very well done fakes around.


and some Americans (and Europeans I suppose) like the eBay fellow :wink:

I doubt the eBay pots are fake knowing the location, Rhode Island, but who knows! Maybe he found out the pots were not legit at one point in time. :roll:
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Re: Metal edges on yixing pots.

Postby Tead Off » Mar 28th, '13, 01:02

Only a knowledgeable Yixing person or gambler buys these pots on ebay. The older pots made for Thai market are gold rimmed, not painted. If there are painted ones, I haven't seen them. This doesn't mean all gold rimmed pots are real. One of the problems that many of the old ones here were never used. They were collected for status and sat on shelves and display cases. It's not easy for the untrained eye to distinguish between real and fake sometimes. Then, there are the old Chao Zhou zhuni pots which get even harder to identify as they are made from mud, not ore, and have a different texture.
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Re: Metal edges on yixing pots.

Postby futurebird » Mar 28th, '13, 03:26

The seller of the 5k pots only claimed they were from "pre 1940s" if you read all of the info on how they use the word "antique" --

They also say the pots are "Chinese"

These claims seem modest enough to be true.

To be "fake" these pots would need to be one of the following:

*made in somewhere other than China
*not make of yixing clay
*made after 1940

--

With the painted pot a similar standard applies, maybe you're right it was just made to sit in a curio-- as kind of less expensive version of the ones with solid gold plates.

I just can't imagine paint would last long in every-day use.

Also, the painted pot looks much younger, but maybe that's because it was never used.
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Re: Metal edges on yixing pots.

Postby Tead Off » Mar 28th, '13, 04:22

Yixing are generally not made to sit on a shelf. Here in Thailand, they sit on a shelf because there is little tea culture in Thailand. They like Coke and Pepsi and Japanese bottled cold teas.

Thailand is a good place to find old teapots. Competition is stiff. Buying at top auction houses gets you provenance and identification by people who have handled such things a lot. Sometimes they are fooled, too. This is a rich man's game. Better to enjoy some good teas with a modestly priced teapot than spending money on expensive teapots that could backfire on you.
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Re: Metal edges on yixing pots.

Postby theredbaron » Mar 28th, '13, 04:33

futurebird wrote:
To be "fake" these pots would need to be one of the following:

*made in somewhere other than China
*not make of yixing clay
*made after 1940




It's more complicated.
There are fakes, and there are imitations made in tribute. It's been normal practice in Yixing workshops all along to make imitations of famous pots, and to the highest standards.They are all made in China, and often also from Yixing clay.
At all times both were made in China, such as during the ROC period of famous Qing and Ming pots. Those imitations and fakes were often of very good clay and workmanship, and command very high prices as well, and are excellent to drink from. But of course the prices are not as high as true Qing or Ming pots.
But then there are fakes made of very bad clay, or not Yixing clay at all, and artificially aged with materials that can be very unhealthy if these pots would be used.
There are fakes of modern master pots, and fakes of antique pots.

The difference in price between fakes, imitations, and real period pots can be enormous. It's not enough if a pot is just made from Yixing clay, and in China. There is a difference not just in collector value, but also in use.

Many tea lovers only drink from pots made before the change from wood fired dragon kilns to electric kilns. Another difference is the porosity of the clay itself, as it was done differently in earlier times, and many drinkers feel the old by hand prepared clay was better.
That is why, for example, the cultural revolution Shui Pings from factory 1 are so searched after (and often faked nowadays) even though they are mostly not very finely crafted, but used excellent clay done in the old ways.
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Re: Metal edges on yixing pots.

Postby theredbaron » Mar 28th, '13, 04:34

Tead Off wrote:Yixing are generally not made to sit on a shelf. Here in Thailand, they sit on a shelf because there is little tea culture in Thailand. They like Coke and Pepsi and Japanese bottled cold teas.

Thailand is a good place to find old teapots. Competition is stiff. Buying at top auction houses gets you provenance and identification by people who have handled such things a lot. Sometimes they are fooled, too. This is a rich man's game. Better to enjoy some good teas with a modestly priced teapot than spending money on expensive teapots that could backfire on you.



+1
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Re: Metal edges on yixing pots.

Postby MarshalN » Mar 28th, '13, 10:18

5000 is a bit silly for the second. They should be purchaseable for about 1000 or so, plus or minus. Christie's or Sotheby's isn't a good price guide.
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